Effect of replacing windows on heating

ChrisJ

Wth is "proper PPE"

Gordy

Yes self leveling, and no brush strokes with the proper brush. You have to plan your work. Sunny exposures will tear your **** up. So cloudy days, early AM.

PPE= personal protection equipment.

Glazing is another area of technique to achieve stellar results if it is apart of the window assembly.

ChrisJ

Glazing is glass so I assume you're talking about glazing compound.

ChrisJ

Let's see some pictures of your work @Gordy. I consider my self decent with glazing compound but always like to see other styles.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

Glazing is glass so I assume you're talking about glazing compound.

Correct

ChrisJ

Here's some of my work
This sash was in terrible shape when I started. This is before the top coat. This is one of my original 150+ year old sashes.




BTW, I just bought this heatgun for stripping as I got tired of the cheap ones.

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Appliance-HG-501A-500-750-Fahrenheit/dp/B0002SRM2E

Gordy

When I get some time I will post some Chris. My Windows have multi panes. Some as many as 35 in a fixed unit. Double hungs 20...... Pane in the **** pun intended

Gordy

Plus storms, and screens.

When I say burn I mean torch not heat gun. Not mapp either propane.

Gordy

Need the right tool. Glazers knife which is stiffer than the wimpy putty knife I see in the pic. It's also a multi tool. For removing loose glazing compound.

Those large runs are nice. Try 8"x12" panes 20 times then move on. You get good at the corner details.

Not bad, but chatter marks, and lacks crisp consistent edge on glass. Those small errors are multiplied once top coated.

Kneading the glazing is key. Roll into a long length then stuff it. Finish off with glazers knife. Hard long strokes with detail on angle of the blade.

ChrisJ

I would never use a torch to strip paint especially if it's lead paint. I intentionally bought a 500 - 700 F one to make sure it can't vaporize the lead.

Most of my windows are 2 over 2 with 12"x24" glass

Hat my work isn't perfect but I think it's decent especially since they are covered by storms.

Gordy

Ditch the heat gun. Seriously. A torch is much more efficient ( fast), and less on the electric bill.

Heat until paint bubbles off the wood. Don't scrape until it cools, and reaches a hard to rubbery consistancy.

You will see oil base paints over the years have actually left their oils in the wood (good) unless there were areas of extreme weathering.

Most of my old paint adhered well. However years of scrape, and recoats it just looks like crap unless you start over.

BobC

That is the kind of work that takes practice, when you've done the last window compare it to the first one you did. I can tell you your glazing lools better than the last pone I did but I have no patience for that kind of work.

All Thumbs Bob

Gordy

If you can solder circuit boards, and pipe I trust you can handle a torch with out burning the house down. Your not actually touching the flame to the paint.

Gordy

Bondo can be your freind in repairing some rotted areas. Get rid of all the rot, and then use wood hardener. Top with bondo, and shape with detail sander.

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

Ditch the heat gun. Seriously. A torch is much more efficient ( fast), and less on the electric bill.

Heat until paint bubbles off the wood. Don't scrape until it cools, and reaches a hard to rubbery consistancy.

You will see oil base paints over the years have actually left their oils in the wood (good) unless there were areas of extreme weathering.

Most of my old paint adhered well. However years of scrape, and recoats it just looks like crap unless you start over.

What part of " I just bought this heatgun for stripping as I got tired of the cheap ones." did you miss?

I intentionally bought that as it's the tool I want to use.

Gordy

Go for it. I bought one too. However your jumping over a dollar to pick up a dime. Try the torch you will see. If speed is of no concern then use the heat gun, and the watts.

Gordy

A propane torch is much cheaper, and effective. Both in upfront costs, and operation costs. It's 1740 watts. I had a porter cable 1500 watt painful. 250 additional watts will not make that much difference.

The key to the flame is transitioning the material from goo to crisp.

ChrisJ

Sounds like begging for lead poisoning to me. No thanks

Gordy

Gordy

I threw the gazebo in for free

ChrisJ

Funny how in the 1800s they kept working hard at making larger glass and by mid 1800s 2 over 2 was a big deal and then 1 over 1 and after all that styles went back to tiny panes.

BobC

That is a first class job.

A friends dad bought a 90 year old colonial in the mid 80's from the original owners.He retired that winter and spent the spring summer and fall taking all the window sashes down to bare wood, glazing and painting them. he installed spring bronze weatherstripping as he put the back in.

I remember him saying the problem with glazing was by the time you get really good at it your just about done with the house and by the time you have to do it again so much time has passed it takes a few windows to get the technique back. The man had the patience of Job, the windows looked like new when he was done with them.

Bob

Gordy

Thanks Bob. Yes all my windows, and doors have spring bronze weather stripping all original, and functional. Can't beat it for seal, and longevity.

Gordy

Hell I never knew the upper sash of the double Hungs were operational until I got into it. 60 years of paint.

ChrisJ

I had looked into spring bronze, and realized it was pointless on most of mine due to how they were built. Most of mine the upper sashes don't move and none of them were made with weights. My newer ones from the late 1800s-early 1900s have weights and work absolutely beautiful.

These were the only other pics I could find, showing, or at least trying to show the distortion in the 1860s glass.


Here's one I took accidentally of the glass in my son's room when we stripped the wallpaper down to the plaster to paint. The top left pane has a bubble in it, that's not an illusion. Apparently this was "high tech glass" back then.

Gordy

Don't get rid of the wavy glass that is historical. People dig it.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

Funny how in the 1800s they kept working hard at making larger glass and by mid 1800s 2 over 2 was a big deal and then 1 over 1 and after all that styles went back to tiny panes.

Yeah window washing is fun for me. Wax on, wax off.....

Gordy

Those bay windows have radiant heat in the ceiling. Nice touch in the 50's

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

Don't get rid of the wavy glass that is historical. People dig it.

People can dig it all they want.
If I had the resources, these would all be replaced with Anderson 400 Woodwright series 2 over 2 windows tomorrow.

I have absolutely no doubt about that, none.
I'd probably sell the glass, no reason to get rid of something that could be used to restore actual good windows.

Gordy

Marvin is a superior product. Jeldwen close second. Pella lost traction.

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

Marvin is a superior product. Jeldwen close second. Pella lost traction.

Sorry,
Your a Sherwin Williams man, and I'm a Benjamin Moore man. This means I can't take advice from you.

Did you get my PM?

Gordy

My SW kept me from buying new Windows. Your BM is driving you in the opposite direction

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

My SW kept me from buying new Windows. Your BM is driving you in the opposite direction

Did you read anything I typed?

The design, and quality of my windows is driving me in the opposite direction. If you had windows that were built wrong, sloppy, and missing the parting strips and weights by design you'd do the same thing. My top and bottom sash, rub against each other as there's no parting strips by design, they work terrible and have a ton of side to side movement as well. The top and bottom sashes overlap a hair, that's all that seals it, no bevel like a modern window.

My windows, were 100 years old when your "old windows" were built. Think about that for a second. My newer windows from the late 1800s - early 1900s work beautiful, if that's all I had I'd definitely restore all of them.


I've yet to touch a single window with BM paint, it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Not to mention, I'd never paint wood without primer, I don't care whose name is on the can.

bob_46

They make a knife with a vee shape and notch that keeps things straight and consistent , keep the knife wet with karo or thinner.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

Gordy said:

My SW kept me from buying new Windows. Your BM is driving you in the opposite direction

Did you read anything I typed?

The design, and quality of my windows is driving me in the opposite direction. If you had windows that were built wrong, sloppy, and missing the parting strips and weights by design you'd do the same thing. My top and bottom sash, rub against each other as there's no parting strips by design, they work terrible and have a ton of side to side movement as well. The top and bottom sashes overlap a hair, that's all that seals it, no bevel like a modern window.

My windows, were 100 years old when your "old windows" were built. Think about that for a second. My newer windows from the late 1800s - early 1900s work beautiful, if that's all I had I'd definitely restore all of them.


I've yet to touch a single window with BM paint, it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Not to mention, I'd never paint wood without primer, I don't care whose name is on the can.

Chris ,

So long as there is room in the side jamb. All the parts that are necessary, missing, or never installed to make the windows as the others are is possible.

Plenty of internet sources for this.

If your intent is to put up with disfunctional Windows until you can afford new ones so be it. Ordering custom full replacements that size is not cheap. I'd never go with replacement sashes that use existing jambs though. You lose glazing area, the u-value sucks, and it looks like a replacement.



As for coating selection, and steps in the process. It's your arm, and time

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

ChrisJ said:

Gordy said:

My SW kept me from buying new Windows. Your BM is driving you in the opposite direction

Did you read anything I typed?

The design, and quality of my windows is driving me in the opposite direction. If you had windows that were built wrong, sloppy, and missing the parting strips and weights by design you'd do the same thing. My top and bottom sash, rub against each other as there's no parting strips by design, they work terrible and have a ton of side to side movement as well. The top and bottom sashes overlap a hair, that's all that seals it, no bevel like a modern window.

My windows, were 100 years old when your "old windows" were built. Think about that for a second. My newer windows from the late 1800s - early 1900s work beautiful, if that's all I had I'd definitely restore all of them.


I've yet to touch a single window with BM paint, it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Not to mention, I'd never paint wood without primer, I don't care whose name is on the can.

Chris ,

So long as there is room in the side jamb. All the parts that are necessary, missing, or never installed to make the windows as the others are is possible.

Plenty of internet sources for this.

If your intent is to put up with disfunctional Windows until you can afford new ones so be it. Ordering custom full replacements that size is not cheap. I'd never go with replacement sashes that use existing jambs though. You lose glazing area, the u-value sucks, and it looks like a replacement.



As for coating selection, and steps in the process. It's your arm, and time

Gordy, thank for you trying to help but,

There's no room for the parting strips as the windows were buil\t without them. The sashes are thin and are not beveled where they overlap.

There's no fixing them which is why I gave up four years ago.

My preference would be to rip all of the siding off, install new windows, insulation, sheathing and siding. The results would be insane in both comfort and heat loss.

Replacement windows, as much as you say they suck, and I agree to an extent, would still be far better than what I have in every way. My windows are fairly large compared to modern windows so losing some glazing area wouldn't be a big deal in my opinion. I'd prefer new and not replacements of course, and for them not to be smaller, but sometimes you have to make the best of what you've got.


Here's the best example I have on hand to give an idea of the size of all of the original windows.

That's a 50sqft radiator for comparison.

Gordy

Give me a pic of the jamb with window open on one of the garbage ones, and one with the window open on a similar functioning one.

SWEI

Hatterasguy said:

Do you know of paint that will stand up 20 years without any peel?

I painted my parents' house in the summer of 1980 using the original Glidden Spred Satin. Two weeks of prep work with brushes and a pressure washer followed by a single coat sprayed with a Hero airless. Those cost over $3k at the time, but I was working at a rental yard and worked my employee discount to the limit. Coverage ended up about half what the label promised, but it's still in great shape today.

Dunn-Edwards was still making quality paint as late as the 1990s. Kwal (a regional brand here) made good paint, at least until Sherwin-Williams bought them.

Paul48

A friend has a house 2 blocks from the beach, and he simply couldn't keep paint on his windows. He used 2-part epoxy, marine paint, 12 yrs ago, and they look like he just painted them.

Gordy

The house in the pics I posted was built by my grandparents. The original roof was cedar shakes dipped in creosote. It lasted over 30 years under the eternal shade of two mighty oaks. Moss being its demise.

Would have hated being the roofer on that.