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Oh Canada (well Ontario)

Comments

  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 1,709
    Ontario voters elected and re-elected whackos. Somebody will pay down the road. Provincial government debt is $100,000 per family.
  • Hilly
    Hilly Member Posts: 417
    Well they hydro electric excess that they need to push to market.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,815
    They actually have a thing as a Climate Change Minister??? What A crock.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,021
    It's nice to know, at least, that the dear ol' USA does not have a monopoly on slightly flaky politicians...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    4JohnpipeCanuckerSolid_Fuel_Man
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    @kcopp

    Yes........He just held a press conference, and stated that most of Canada had warmed in the last couple months.....lol
  • njtommy
    njtommy Member Posts: 1,105
    edited May 2016
    Why don't they just push dual fuel. Heatpump then switch to NG. I really don't know if geothermal is the way to go anymore. With these new heatpumps that hit the market.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    To be fair, once the same VRF technology is fully implemented in water to water heat pumps they will once again leap ahead in efficiency.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,815
    They can throw all the money they want at the problem and it will not make a difference....
    All it will do is lower the standard of living....
    I highly encourage saving energy and NOT being wasteful.
    I hate waste.
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,966
    I don't know.

    Having a majority of your homes run completely on hydro electric sounds like a good thing to me. Especially if it can be done affordably.


    Certainly makes more sense than running heat pumps with electric generated by coal or oil.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 1,709
    Ontario ran out of hydro electric a half century ago. Today much of its electricity comes from atomic power. To replace gas heat requires not only more nukes but also way more distribution. How can that be accomplished when its people elect and re-elect whackos?
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,425
  • It seems like the day of the wackos all over the world!--NBC
    Brewbeer
  • The funny thing (at least to me) is the perception that electric heat (or electric water heaters) are for the most part 100% efficient. What's is missed is the line loses due to wire resistance between the source of the electricity and where it's used. Wet, radiant heating (and cooling) is still the most efficient system in my opinion. Too bad DOE (and others) don't regulate systems, only components of systems.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    The story I tell clients goes something like this:

    An electric resistance electric element is nearly 100% efficient at converting electricity to heat. The power company creates the overwhelming majority of that electricity by burning either coal or natural gas. On average, they burn natural gas in their most efficient gas turbine plants and convert 50% of the energy in that gas to electricity. They lose another 7% in distribution, so roughly 46% of the energy contained in the gas actually goes to heating your building.

    A properly sized, installed, and commissioned mod/con boiler will convert twice as many of those BTUs into usable heat. You get increased comfort while spending less money and a 50% reduction in the amount of carbon and other pollutants you put in the atmosphere. Coal and gas peaking plants are even worse.

    Please sign here...
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,021
    I've been muttering (and sometimes yelling) about this sort of thing for years -- the absolute necessity of considering the full life or energy cycle when evaluating environmental impacts from different systems -- such as heating. Or electric cars. Or rail freight vs. superhighways. Or...

    But... nobody's listening. Except maybe Wallies!
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,304
    This is where the....cough....heat pump market looks good. If you burn NG or coal to make power and 46% of that energy makes it to your house. Then you have a 300% efficient heat pump you are further ahead than burning NG or coal directly in your house. That's the argument is get.

    Not at all saying I agree or endorse this line of thinking, but on paper it makes sense.

    Taylor
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    njtommy
  • njtommy
    njtommy Member Posts: 1,105
    I really like heat pumps. Especially the newest ones with inverters. They do really well in cold weather do to using liquid/ medium temp injection back into the compressor. They are a challenge to work at times with the control boards and sensors ( and your out side in the cold doing so), but like we always say if it's installed correctly theirs less of a chance of failures especially with the EXVs.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    As with any hydronic question, GSHP efficiency depends... If it happens to get its electricity from Hydro electric, then yes, it can be nearly 300% efficient, except the line losses. If it's from a fossil fuel burning generator, then yeah, not so efficient, but still more than 100% efficient in any case.

    I ilke telling my brother that his Tesla is running on dead dinosaurs... Get's his ire up every time.

    Now, wouldn't it be a great world if all we had was hydro electric power? Then we'd only be at the whims of droughts... And what do we do when the water runs out... Throw another dinosaur on the fire, of course!

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    The sun is quite reliable. If there is a solar drought we have bigger things to worry about. Now if we could only convert it to electricity with higher efficiency PV panels 21% just doesn't cut it, and the degrading efficiency shoots longevity.
  • Or "electric glass" that radiates heat. Mark, what do you think? :wink:
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,021
    I wouldn't mind hydro so much, Mark, except around here "hydro" means Quebec, and their environmental and human rights record with regard to building dams is pretty bad.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,004
    The hydro dams along the Colorado have always been controversial.

    Power, like water flows towards money. Does the Colorado even flow into Mexico anymore?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 1,709
    Ontario has many nukes but many Ontarians are not completely happy with those either.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837

    Or "electric glass" that radiates heat. Mark, what do you think? :wink:

    I think that is a CAPITAL idea Steve. And that product in and of itself will reduce energy consumption by around 40% according to two independent studies...

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356

    wouldn't it be a great world if all we had was hydro electric power?

    But I really do love salmon and trout...
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,966
    SWEI said:

    wouldn't it be a great world if all we had was hydro electric power?

    But I really do love salmon and trout...
    But do you love electricity more?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    edited December 2016
    ChrisJ said:

    SWEI said:

    wouldn't it be a great world if all we had was hydro electric power?

    But I really do love salmon and trout...
    But do you love electricity more?
    I can grill....
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,966
    Gordy said:

    ChrisJ said:

    SWEI said:

    wouldn't it be a great world if all we had was hydro electric power?

    But I really do love salmon and trout...
    But do you love electricity more?
    I can grill....
    So can I, and I do.
    But grilling doesn't light a house. It doesn't run your refrigerator (SERVEL doesn't count....) and it doesn't run air conditioning or a computer.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment