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3 Speed Taco Circulator Frozen? Back alive now but for how long

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cwilliams2000
cwilliams2000 Member Posts: 140
I have a Peerless WBV style boiler with 2 circ pumps. Both are Taco 00r-msf1-ifc and tonight I noticed the house was getting cold. Went to check it out and after some work I realized the circ pump was making funny noises but no water movement. My plan if I had to was to switch my DHW pump to get heat for the night.

I ended up removing the pump and trying to spin it by hand and didnt feel good. Tried a few more times and felt tough and connected to power and after 3 or 4 attempts and spinning it came back to life.

I reassembled it and prayed for no leaks and after one gasket getting squeezed I put it together and its running, even smoothly but I am not a betting man.

So my question is that this pump runs a ton all winter and I have a pretty good sized house and I was thinking about replacing it and they dont make that one any longer. Its the main zone with 7 valves off it and it was always set to high and seemed to work well.

Couple of questions?

1) Could I literally just put a 007 in its place since I never used the lower speeds with this one?
2) Or could I spend some extra money and get one of these ECM type pumps to save some power which does seem to spike during the winter some and get a TACO VT2218-HY1-FC1A01 VIRIDIAN DELTA-T VARIABLE SPEED ECM HIGH EFFICIENCY CIRCULATOR, LESS FLANGES - STANDARD, 1/25 HP

I am not certain about eCM and if it even works for a DHW system but since HOPEFULLY I have a little time, maybe a few dyas I would like to make a good purchase if it does save $ in the long run.

Or just stick with basics and get another pump and maybe buy a spare?

Also my controls on this are a Beckett Aquasmart with outdoor temp reset sensor.


Thanks very much for your help.

Comments

  • Joe Mattiello
    Joe Mattiello Member Posts: 707
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    Sorry to hear about your pump getting stuck. It can happen for sure, and when it does, it a good to know you can replace the cartridge only (00R-002RP), as opposed to the entire pump which is 0015-MSF3-IFC
    You can invest in the latest and greatest VR1816 ECM pump which is also a three speed pump fixed, constant pressure, or proportional pressure. This pump will reduce your power consumption by up to 85%
    Couple of additional attributes of this design is the Bio-Barrier to minimize debris getting into the cartridge, and the wicked cool sure start feature. The pump actually makes 100 attempts to unlock it-self if it does get hung up. You will find more information on the sure start feature on page 7 of the instruction sheet. http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/102-499.pdf
    http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/100-116.pdf

    http://www.taco-hvac.com/products/variable_speed_products/viridian_vr1816/index.html
    Joe Mattiello
    N. E. Regional Manger, Commercial Products
    Taco Comfort Solutions
    Zman
  • cwilliams2000
    cwilliams2000 Member Posts: 140
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    Thank you very much, I ended up getting a vt2218 locally and its absolutely awesome. I see what you mean it is whisper quiet and I got the sensors hooked up and its already ramping down and up as needed. Seems to be a very nice upgrade. Thanks!
  • sunlight33
    sunlight33 Member Posts: 378
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    How does the VR1816 compare to Grundfos Alpha?
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    You may want to clean and flush your system. Then add some inhibitor. Also make sure you don't have any system leaks. If you see mineral buildup or corrosion anywhere, you likely have a leak even if you don't see any water or dripping. Oxygen in the water causing corrosion on the inside of the system and will foul things up. A circulator is usually the first victim.
    IronmanZmankcopp
  • cwilliams2000
    cwilliams2000 Member Posts: 140
    Options

    I have a Peerless WBV style boiler with 2 circ pumps. Both are Taco 00r-msf1-ifc and tonight I noticed the house was getting cold. Went to check it out and after some work I realized the circ pump was making funny noises but no water movement. My plan if I had to was to switch my DHW pump to get heat for the night.

    I ended up removing the pump and trying to spin it by hand and didnt feel good. Tried a few more times and felt tough and connected to power and after 3 or 4 attempts and spinning it came back to life.

    I reassembled it and prayed for no leaks and after one gasket getting squeezed I put it together and its running, even smoothly but I am not a betting man.

    So my question is that this pump runs a ton all winter and I have a pretty good sized house and I was thinking about replacing it and they dont make that one any longer. Its the main zone with 7 valves off it and it was always set to high and seemed to work well.

    Couple of questions?

    1) Could I literally just put a 007 in its place since I never used the lower speeds with this one?
    2) Or could I spend some extra money and get one of these ECM type pumps to save some power which does seem to spike during the winter some and get a TACO VT2218-HY1-FC1A01 VIRIDIAN DELTA-T VARIABLE SPEED ECM HIGH EFFICIENCY CIRCULATOR, LESS FLANGES - STANDARD, 1/25 HP

    I am not certain about eCM and if it even works for a DHW system but since HOPEFULLY I have a little time, maybe a few dyas I would like to make a good purchase if it does save $ in the long run.

    Or just stick with basics and get another pump and maybe buy a spare?

    Also my controls on this are a Beckett Aquasmart with outdoor temp reset sensor.


    Thanks very much for your help.

    Sadly not even a year later with the heating season started this replacement pump is dead. Seems frozen, just keeps click. Pretty dissapointed that the old pump lasted 8 years and this one 8 months.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,379
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    You need to look again at what Harvey Ramer posted.

    ECM pumps are very intolerant of debris, iron oxide particles, minerals, etc.

    The problem is with the system, not the pumps. They're the symptom.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Zmankcopp
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    You are headed down a very expensive path. As Harvey and Bob mentioned, failed pumps are the first sign of a bigger problem. Poor water quality will eventually eat everything including the boiler. You need to test and correct your boiler side water ASAP.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    Ironman
  • cwilliams2000
    cwilliams2000 Member Posts: 140
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    I appreciate the advice and pointing out the old note that I clearly missed. I just went and flushed (no chemicals) the boiler with clean water and it was not good. The water was extremely dirty so I did this for a while and it is probably 80-90% better. I couldn't get it 100% clear but it was very improved. I will try to repeat this again after the system is used a bit more.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,379
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    You may need a boiler system cleaner like Fernox.

    I'd also recommend an inline strainer be installed.

    If you got a lot of sludge or rust, that's indicative of leaks on your system that should fixed. It comes from the oxygen in the fresh make up water that's being added.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Rich_49
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
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    Fernox is great stuff . TF1 Total filter could be used in place of a inline strainer and make upkeep easier
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,379
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    Rich said:

    Fernox is great stuff . TF1 Total filter could be used in place of a inline strainer and make upkeep easier

    @Rich
    That's exactly what I had in mind, but couldn't remember the model when I posted.

    My memory is very good, but it's gotten very short. :D

    Thanks

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
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    Here are a few other options. These use a high performance coalescing media for dirt and a magnet for small magnetite particles.
    They remove down to a 5 micron particle size with the media, much smaller with the magnet.

    Other brands use a hydrocyclonic action, no media to remove dirt particles. When use with variable speed pumps at low flow conditions they lose effectiveness.

    Separators work much better than strainers as they never add pressure drop. Strainers immediately add flow resistance as the collect crud in the mesh, and can plug 100% and starve a pump or boiler for flow.

    In either case it is wise to check and blow them down occasionally. Within a month on a new start up.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,616
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    most likely the iron particles are doing it.

    As the pump revolves the internal parts can become magnetic and any particles in the water are attracted to the pump. Since the pump is water lubricated it will eventually seize up. Flush, clean and install a filter or strainer. You can also get a magnetic filter
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,441
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    Tell us more about your system...
    Something is up....
    Any radiant?
    Any Black rubber tubing?
    Any grey tubing?
    Any pix?
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • cwilliams2000
    cwilliams2000 Member Posts: 140
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    Only thing about those separators is that they all seem to be made in the UK. Is UK piping the same as US? I thought there pipes were metric sized so my concern is that even if I got a separator that it would not fit.

    It is interesting that powerflushing and cleaning seems to be a huge business in the UK but it barely anything in the US. Due to their use of high efficiency stuff more?
  • cwilliams2000
    cwilliams2000 Member Posts: 140
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    kcopp said:

    Tell us more about your system...
    Something is up....
    Any radiant?
    Any Black rubber tubing?
    Any grey tubing?
    Any pix?

    The system is 17 years old and I would likely say that it has maybe been drained once or bled a few times so it may just be a lot of years. No radiant, no plastic and no tubing. But....This is a peerless WBV4 and there is a black rubber gasket that seals off the factory coil that was an option on this boiler so it could be coming from that also. It looks more black than rust colored.
  • cwilliams2000
    cwilliams2000 Member Posts: 140
    Options
    I also just took some time to bleed the 8 zones and the boiler again and all zones also had some turbid water as well. Obviously are much better now.
  • cwilliams2000
    cwilliams2000 Member Posts: 140
    Options
    Also, I was able to rinse the core to the Taco and saw some fine debris and the pump works OK now. I will check it again in a few weeks.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,256
    Options

    Only thing about those separators is that they all seem to be made in the UK. Is UK piping the same as US? I thought there pipes were metric sized so my concern is that even if I got a separator that it would not fit.

    It is interesting that powerflushing and cleaning seems to be a huge business in the UK but it barely anything in the US. Due to their use of high efficiency stuff more?

    Most everything coming into the US has been converted to NPT or CTS fittings.

    The UK is more progressive on boiler care, two of the chemical companies we see in the US come from there.
    Rhomar Water hydronic cleaners and chemicals are made in the US a hometown Missouri company.

    Also the UK still has, and installs, open hydronic systems with an open expansion vessel up high in the building, so corrosion and treatment, as well as flushing is a huge business.

    Usually those older copper, steel, and iron systems like yours do not have a lot of corrosion, unless O2 is entering somewhere, somehow.

    Take a magnet to the black water that drains out. If particles stick that is metal breakdown to magnetite, looks like a fine graphite when it drys. An indication of O2 ingress.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    kcopp