Lock out

maybemark

Some time this early morning my lochinvar whn 085 went into lock out mode. The screen is all red, and has a message.
I've turned off the boiler service switch, I've hit reset several times, but, the boiler is not staying on, it always goes to Lock out within 20 sec,

Message under lock out
Air pr sw/hex temp sw
I can not find it in the manual

I do not know what this means.

Please, if someone is up and about, and knoweledge of this lock out message. I would truly appreciate the help

Thanks Mark

Heat_n_CT

pg 37 of the service manual. Air Pressure SW - Air pressure switch contacts are open.

• Check the wiring connections to switch. Wires should
be connected to the common and normally closed
terminals.
• Air intake lengths exceed the maximum allowed
lengths. Refer to Section 3 - General Venting of the
Knight Wall Mount Installation and Operation Manual
for proper lengths.
• Check for obstruction or blockage in the air
intake pipes or at terminations.
• Check reference hoses connected to the air pressure
switch for blockage or obstruction.
• Inspect the burner. Reference page 31 of this manual
for removal and cleaning procedures. Replace if
necessary.
• Inspect the heat exchanger. Reference page 32 of
this manual for removal and cleaning procedures.
Replace if necessary.
• Faulty air pressure switch. Replace switch.

maybemark

Heat
Thank you very much
the boiler was working well, why would it start to go on lock out?

I will study and perform all the actions that you told me
is this a normal thiing, or does it sound like big troubles
thanks again
Mark

Heat_n_CT

got me...i'm just a homeowner reading from the manual. But my guess would be that if this thing has been fine all along and it just started acting up I'd look for an obstruction like it says in bullet points 3 & 4, then if nothing I'd suspect the switch itself.

When was it's last annual service?

maybemark

Before I came upstairs to see if I got any response I went i had turned off the 110 going to the boiler.
Read everything that you sent me heat.
Saw the page on the air switch.

Before I did any inspection, though I did take the cover off.
I turned on the 110
again went into lock out
pressed reset
and it ignited, as normal

I need to walk the dog now, and I hope that it is still working when i get back

Any more suggestions, would be appreciated.
Could i have my settings at an improper number to cause this?

Heat, again thank you very much
Mark

Zman

Take a look at the vents on the outside. Did something block them?

unclejohn

If it worked with the cover off check the air in pipe.

Gordy

As Carl said check the vents. For Possible icing, or other blockage

maybemark

Carl, John and Gordy
Thanks for your input.
Carl, I checked the vents outside, no obstruction at all

John, yes, when it started working, it was with the front panel off, but, I pulled the panel off, earlier.

Before i walked Bella, It did start and ignite (finally)
I have DHW as priority, so, the pumps were getting the tank hot 1st. The strange thing is, that when i came back downstairs after I got it started, the flame only was around 50%. This never happened to me, every single time, when the tank asking for heat it would go to 100% and shut off, when it was satisfied.

I don't know if that was really such a good thing, it ended the the DHW was constantly cycling.

It met priority for the tank, and is now heating my hose at 100%
last i looked, the system was about 20 degrees until it would hit setpoint.

any other thoughts or suggestion?
I want to thank everyone that is helping
Mark

maybemark

Just went downstairs, it went to lock out again.
I will study the manual, and check the possibilities,
but your suggestion are always greatful
thanks
Mark

maybemark

It is still in lock out.
when the boiler is trying to go on, it sounds a little different then when it was working properly. It seems to have a higher pitch to it,
I can not seem to find where the air intake sensor is. If anyone knows, please let me know.
suggestions are appreciated
thanks
Mark

maybemark

I am looking at the manual for where the air intake switch is, and I can not find it

I had it out of lock out, a while ago, but it went back into lock out again.
I would like to do all suggestion possible, but i am having problems on where to look. i am reading the manual, and i guess I am looking right past it

Again, when I reset it, it does sound different than before. a high pitch noise coming around the fan area.

Please help
thanks
Mark

Paul48

The air intake is screened, to protect against critters?

maybemark

ok
I will go back outside and look close at the intake
thanks Paul

maybemark

Carl, Gordy, and Paul
I can not thank you enough. When carl and gordy told me to check dor obstructions, I only looked at it, and saw no snow around it
When paul mentioned about the screen, I took apart the outside and with difficulty removed a layer of frost over the intake.
Thanks Paul
This might be a problematic ongoing in this single digets.
I am using the air intake/ exhaust compination, and I see, I should not have used pvc cement for the exhaust 90.
this is what made it difficult to get to the intake, ince the intake is behind a shield of plastic. I think I should maybe consider changing that and have 2 90's instead.

As soon as i got the frost off, and put everything back together. I went to the boiler, reset it, and not only is it working, that high pitch noise is gone.

Again, thank you thank you thank you
for your suggestions, and me being able to solve the problem with the help of the heating wall

Mark

Gordy

Mark is it a coarse screen?

maybemark

Gordy
maybe 1/4 x 1/4 inch. It's rally hard to see, because of the mistake I made on cementing on the last 90.
The 90 is the exhaust, and then, it receives fresh air, around the perimeter, and that piece has the screen on it.

this exhaust / intake came with the boiler, but, if this is something that will be on going, i will need to change it
Thanks
Mark

SWEI

Removing the screen is a bad idea, especially for designs like the WHN with fans that are direct-coupled to the intake pipe.

Can you upload a photo of the outside termination?

maybemark

I did not remove the screen, I removed the frost covering over the screen. This is what was restricting the air flow.
I think i installed it wrong, and should have never cemented on the 90 for the exhaust. Because it was cemented on, it was a little difficult removing the frost on the intake (screen)

Gordy

Pic please. Important this is right.

Paul48

I don't think a 90 needs to be put on a concentric vent. What did the instructions say?

maybemark

Gordy,
I am terrible on taking pictures. it might make more sense on seeing the trim plate picture from a manual from Lochinvar.
No way will i be able to take a picture of the most important thing, the actual hole of the intake outside

i will try and explain.
there is a plate that goes on the outside wall, with 2 holes on it for intake and exhaust. over the plate is another cover about 1/2" away from the plastic plate. this area is open on the perimeter to a screened hole, which is the intake In the manual it says put a 90 down, on the exhaust hole.

I just talked to my plumber friend Fred, he suggested putting a st 45 on the exhaust, so the intake and ehaust are a little farther away. I know having another fitting goes against the legnth of the run, but I am way below that amount

I hope you can understand, if not, i'll try and take a photo
thanks Gordy
Mark

bmwpowere36m3

Is this the side-by-side vent you have:



Mine's installed just like that on the side of the house... exhaust points straight out (what you see with the slats), the intake is sucked around the perimeter behind the outer cover.

maybemark

here are 2 pictures
hope you can understand it.
This finish plate came with the boiler

maybemark

BMW
this is what i have also, but, over that hole I put a 90 there. Maybe i made a mistake
thanks BMW
Mark

bmwpowere36m3

That's what I have, but no 90* on the exhaust

maybemark

I will need to read the manual, if that 90 should be removed

Paul48

Use a piece of paper to mark a line around it, and cut it off with a Dremel, or saw-zall. Be careful. Don't let Fred do it.

Paul48

The 90, pretty much guarantees the exhaust gets sucked back into the boiler.

maybemark

Paul
I'll cut it off, I still did not look in the manual, for how they asked for it.
but it seems, from talking to you guys, it should not be there
thanks paul
Mark

bmwpowere36m3

Maybe a 90 on the intake... but not possible with that vent style.

maybemark

I looked at the manual, BMW, you are right, no 90 using this trim peice.
There are many options on how to do it with 90's, but none with that finish plate.
I am going to cut it off right now
I got my dremel ready with extension cord, just got to go out there and do it

maybemark

Paul
I'm confused now, I just saw your last comment.
are you saying the 90 is a good thing, or should i cut it off, like you mentioned before?

Paul48

It's a very bad thing Mark

maybemark

oh, so your saying, cut it off?

Paul48

It "MAY" also explain why your boiler struggled to reach set point. This is why it is important to have a professional, with all the proper equipment, first-fire, a boiler, of any kind.

maybemark

I had several professionals helping me, this site.
Last year, when i decided to change the boiler, no company wanted to go energy efficient. I took it upon myself, with the wisdom of this site to move forward on this

I feel I have learned alot, from you guys, and thought i made mistakes, they all are getting worked out.
i thank all of you, for helping me get though this project
mark

maybemark

I just went down to the basement. The boiler's flame is at 80%, and it's 14 degrees outside.

maybemark

i'm going to go cut off that 90 now

Paul48

Take a reading with your combustion analyzer first, so we can compare, before and after.

Zman

Mark,
The risk is that the boiler has been in taking it's own exhaust. This can cause poor combustion, damage to the fan and venturi and in some cases overheating of vent pipes.
Give the system a good look over and if possible recheck the the combustion.
Don't feel to bad though. Some "Professionals" doing a job that was fully permitted and inspected did this one. There is another condensing boiler concentric vent behind the one you see. On the right is a gas fireplace vent.