Utica boiler runs for awhile then shuts down. Very cold week here, please help!

Abracadabra

dyeingswan said:

I am going to try cleaning the pigtail and orifice on the pressuretrol switch to see if it solves my wet steam issue

It won't. fixing your near boiler piping will.

Dave in QCA

I have attached a copy of your boiler piping, taken from the Utica Installation manual.

I have to give your installer credit for using threaded pipe, and it is the correct size for the boiler. What he did not realize is that the configuration of the piping as shown is critical to make dry steam. This is what we routinely see when folks who are not familiar with steam try to pipe up a steam boiler.

What one has to realize is that there are two things that are flowing in the piping, those being steam and water. Just like when a person install sewer lines, __it flows down hill. So, when you look at each riser coming out of the boiler, as it is boiling and making steam, which is coming out of the boiler at a VERY high rate of speed, the steam is carrying droplets of water. It is critical to allow that water to settle out and return to the boiler. That is what happens in the header. If you begin at the right hand riser on the boiler, you will note that the flow of steam (and water) moves to the left in the drawing, then the second riser ties in, with steam and water still flowing to the left. As the steam and water comes to the connections to the building piping, that exit on the top side of the header, the dry steam will leave and the water, which has now settled to the bottom of the header pipe will continue flowing to the left until it reaches the equalizer pipe, where it falls down the pipe and returns to the boiler. Along the way, you will see the Hartford loop connection. The Harford Loop is also very specific in how it is to be piped. Notice the close nipple, if a longer pipe is used at this location it is prone too hammering. The return piping must drop down low before it comes back up to the Hartford Connection too.

This drawing shows where the Skim port is located. You can use that to get the boiler cleaned up. Oily water will foam, and that leads to all sorts of problems. That may be the second reason that is shutting your boiler down.

But has been said over and over in here..... Fix the problem with the flue and the spill switch FIRST. No one is going to give you a pass on that or say, "I guess its probably OK", because it isn't OK. No matter how drafty the building is. Its sort of like smoking a cigarette while you're filling your car at the gas station. It may not explode, but then again it might and its downright dangerous.

dyeingswan

Thank you very much for this, Dave in QCA. (quote function seems to have stopped working on my computer and phone, all that appears is the word "null"). I looked at the boiler piping and it seems to be set up a bit differently from my unit which has the header pipe going through/above the unit from one side to the other and the sight glass on a totally different side from where the pipes come out (this drawing has sight glass at the back right next to a piping connection). The manual page says there are "alternate piping configurations" on a different page, are any of them more like mine? Very confused

The boiler now seems to be functioning as it should after the damper motor replacement... except for one circumstance. I set the house at 51 degrees when i am not there and it maintains it just fine with no shutting down. But if I return to the house and crank the heat because I am going to be working there, it runs for about 2 hours working to get the heat to 65 and then all of a sudden trips the spill switch. I had the gas pressure reset to factory specs by a tech from a large HVAC company with a manometer. Switch was new this year so guessing not switch unless something could have happened in the circuit to short/burn it out? My next step, from all you have suggested on here, is to have the chimney cleaned, right? I do have a CO alarm now.

Thanks,
Courtney

Fred

Are you sure it is not shutting down on Pressure? Do the burners come back on in a minute or two? When trying to recover from a set back of 14 degrees (51 to 65) the boilker has to run for a long time and most boilers would shut down on pressure after running for 2 hours. Most would shut down on pressure in much less time than that. If it is actually shuuting down because the spill switch trips, something still is not right.

KC_Jones

dyeingswan said:

Thank you very much for this, Dave in QCA. (quote function seems to have stopped working on my computer and phone, all that appears is the word "null"). I looked at the boiler piping and it seems to be set up a bit differently from my unit which has the header pipe going through/above the unit from one side to the other and the sight glass on a totally different side from where the pipes come out (this drawing has sight glass at the back right next to a piping connection). The manual page says there are "alternate piping configurations" on a different page, are any of them more like mine? Very confused

The piping that was shown might be from a different generation boiler than yours so just ignore the position of the sight glass etc. The only thing that matters for your purposes is the black piping above the boiler. The header can be configured in different orientations, but one thing is always the same. The header (horizontal pipe) should have connections in this order.
1. Boiler take off
2. boiler take off
3. system take offs, each one should be connected to the header individually. yours seems to have one connection then tee'd off from there. All the mains are supposed to connect directly to the header.
4. equalizer connection.
I think you might be trying to look at your piping to see an easy way to fix it or trying to match something up. From what I can tell on yours there isn't anything that is correct. It's a do over, when you decide to have it fixed. In addition to the piping connections being wrong the way that "header" is done is putting pressure on the sections and could possibly cause cracking in the boiler the way it is. That is why the header in the pictured piping has the offset or swing joints. It allows for movement of piping independent of the boiler sections so the piping doesn't stress the cast iron.

dyeingswan

Fred said:

Are you sure it is not shutting down on Pressure? Do the burners come back on in a minute or two? When trying to recover from a set back of 14 degrees (51 to 65) the boilker has to run for a long time and most boilers would shut down on pressure after running for 2 hours. Most would shut down on pressure in much less time than that. If it is actually shuuting down because the spill switch trips, something still is not right.

Hi Fred (ok, quoting seems to be working again), well, if I press the little button on the spill switch the boiler comes back on. The spill switch also has a temp cutoff function, correct? Maybe the draft damper is getting so hot after all that running time at full blast that the damper becomes too hot? There has not been a peep out of the CO sensor. I could try upping the temp in 2 stages, giving the boiler a "break" in between. Would that help? I have heard that the switches are also available in a variety of temp ranges. Maybe I should do as my weird boiler guy suggested and just purchase a hotter-rated one?

Fred

I wouldn't put a hotter one on there. At least not hotter than the boiler Mfg. reccomends. Steam boilers do not like trying to recover from set backs of more that 3 or 4 degrees. You're asking a lot to recover from a 14 degree set back all at one time. I'd be inclined to try to recover over maybe three incremental increases in tstat settings.

Jamie Hall

I think we've been here before.

The spill switch is a safety. Like any other safety, if it trips do not reset it without finding why it tripped, and fixing the problem.

In the present instance, it is possible that it might be tripping due to the breeching overheating as a consequence of such a long run (may I ask, by the way, why you even consider a setback of 14 degrees? It won't save you any money at all, unless you are leaving the system at the low temperature for a week or two), in which case the breeching should be allowed to cool completely before you even consider resetting. A fire can ruin your day...

ChrisJ

The spill switch on your drafthood works by temperature.
If there isn't enough dilution air being pulled into the drafthood the drafthood gets hot. If it gets too hot, it trips the switch.

When working properly the location of that switch likely won't even get warm while the boiler is running. It will get hot when the boiler shuts off and closes the damper, but not near hot enough to trip the switch.

If that switch is tripping, you have severe draft issues and they must be rectified. Your steam piping is completely wrong too, but isn't threatening to kill anyone like the draft issue.

dyeingswan

@Jamie Hall The reason I turn the temp down so low is because no one currently lives in the home (investment property being refurbished) and sometimes I do not visit the house for a few days. House is 2000 sq. ft. And drafty as only a 1922 bungalow with original double hung Windows can be. Btw cash flow is an issue for me right now. Ergo... Attempts to save heating money. I just cranked it to 57 today and so far no tripping. We'll have a little break and then go up to 62 or something.

dyeingswan

@ChrisJ The draft hood isn't supposed to get hot? It's hotter than hell, I mean you can touch it without burning your hand but you don't wanna leave your hand there, you know? So is the whole stovepipe which connects to the chimney. Thought this was to be expected? Is it that my chimney just really needs to be cleaned? Also, you know those cast iron clean out doors at the bottom of old chimneys? One of mine won't close all the way, being ancient and rusty. Would this make any difference to anything?

Gordy

@dyeingswan is there a cap on the chimney flue outside? So no animals, or debris can find their way down the flue.

ChrisJ

dyeingswan said:

@ChrisJ The draft hood isn't supposed to get hot? It's hotter than hell, I mean you can touch it without burning your hand but you don't wanna leave your hand there, you know? So is the whole stovepipe which connects to the chimney. Thought this was to be expected? Is it that my chimney just really needs to be cleaned? Also, you know those cast iron clean out doors at the bottom of old chimneys? One of mine won't close all the way, being ancient and rusty. Would this make any difference to anything?

On your style drafthood the top is expected to be burning hot during operation but the lower half, near the opening at the bottom should be much cooler during operation. Maybe warm but not hotter than hell.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest the entire drafthood never gets hot, as hatterasguy said, they do get hot.