Forced hot air is amazing

ChrisJ

Speaking of off topic,
My 1986 IBM model M keyboard was rebuilt and converted to USB for me. Same with a 2004 model M I had. Getting them back Tuesday.

ChrisJ

By the way,

Anyone else realize if Dan Holohan retires this thread title may just become a reality?

Both steam and hot water need the help provided by this website and books.

Brp814

The only problem with steam or hot water heat is that it is really only found in older homes. Most homes built in the last 40 plus years have forced hot air. Forced hot air is nice if done right, but most homes today have the flex duct in the attic that looks like spaghetti. Most people don't care to fix it since it will cost a lot of money. Personally if I am building a house, I would install a mod-con boiler with radiant floor heat.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

Speaking of off topic,
My 1986 IBM model M keyboard was rebuilt and converted to USB for me. Same with a 2004 model M I had. Getting them back Tuesday.

See @Tinker I mean Chris......

My first desk top was a cannon. With a 14" crt monitor, and an ink jet printer. 2000 out the door.
I,really thought I had something.
486sx processor.
130 MB hard drive
2MB ram.
5.25 floppy, and 3.5"

I installed a 12.5k modem, and upgraded to a 486 DX processor.

Gordy

Oh yeah Windows 3.1 whoop t doo!

ChrisJ

Brp814 said:

The only problem with steam or hot water heat is that it is really only found in older homes. Most homes built in the last 40 plus years have forced hot air. Forced hot air is nice if done right, but most homes today have the flex duct in the attic that looks like spaghetti. Most people don't care to fix it since it will cost a lot of money. Personally if I am building a house, I would install a mod-con boiler with radiant floor heat.

Not so sure.
I like to think my dad's system was done right in the house he built in 2006, but whenever I'm there I still feel hot cold hot cold hot cold the entire time. There's absolutely no residual output, no buffer, no coasting. You need those filter capacitors "radiators, floors, etc" to continue to output heat while the system is off. Or, in the case of a modcon, to simply deliver the output.

Heating air in bursts, is terrible. Perhaps, if a system runs non stop at a lower output (does this exist yet?) it'll be better but you're still going to have cold floors and cold walls that simply don't hear well from the air. The air also circulates dust, no matter what. Again perhaps at very slow blower outputs it won't much but that's not what I always see.

Fred

njtommy said:

We all know how much Chris hates forced air, but it has its place.

YES! IN Hell!

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

ChrisJ said:

Speaking of off topic,
My 1986 IBM model M keyboard was rebuilt and converted to USB for me. Same with a 2004 model M I had. Getting them back Tuesday.

See @Tinker I mean Chris......

My first desk top was a cannon. With a 14" crt monitor, and an ink jet printer. 2000 out the door.
I,really thought I had something.
486sx processor.
130 MB hard drive
2MB ram.
5.25 floppy, and 3.5"

I installed a 12.5k modem, and upgraded to a 486 DX processor.

Tinker? huh?
My first was a IBM AT 287 8MHz with 512K ram and twin 30MB MFM autoparking hard drives, later upgraded to 4MB ram. That's what the 1986 model M is from and it's getting put back in use finally.

I don't care for rubber dome keyboards, it certainly slows my typing and increases errors. I need the feedback from a buckling spring keyboard to really shine when it comes to typing. I scored 128WPM on that 1986 model M when I was in highschool.

njtommy

@ChrisJ a ton of commercial buildings are a combination of hydronic or steam forced hot dust. We must bring in out side air and exhaust air during the day to eliminate sick building syndrome. The majority of buildings I've worked in over the years have a perimeter heat of hydronics or steam rads. With air handlers that feed air into duct work with hot water reheat coils in the duct work to help maintain comfort through out the building.
This generally does a great job of keep a controlled temp in different areas. The valves are all modulating to maintain space temp. Control wise it could be pneumatic or VDC.

KC_Jones

My first was a 386 40 MHz processor and a 40 MB hard drive. I was running DOS.

Jack

When I first saw it and your name, I decided that I wouldn't even bother opening it. I knew what it was. Irresistibly, I was drawn in. I couldn't avoid it. It is exactly what I'd expect from you!

njtommy

These big systems are great to see and some of the old Mills 450 boilers with Perfurred utilities burners on them are awesome to see still running after
50 years old or more.

KC_Jones

njtommy said:

@ChrisJ a ton of commercial buildings are a combination of hydronic or steam forced hot dust. We must bring in out side air and exhaust air during the day to eliminate sick building syndrome. The majority of buildings I've worked in over the years have a perimeter heat of hydronics or steam rads. With air handlers that feed air into duct work with hot water reheat coils in the duct work to help maintain comfort through out the building.

This generally does a great job of keep a controlled temp in different areas. The valves are all modulating to maintain space temp. Control wise it could be pneumatic or VDC.

Can you please come fix the system at my work? Ours is terrible. I keep a heater and a fan at my desk and use them frequently, sometimes the heater is for summer and sometimes the fan is for winter and of course vice versa. Oh and the company I work for builds industrial HVAC and refrigeration equipment....go figure.

ChrisJ

Jack said:

When I first saw it and your name, I decided that I wouldn't even bother opening it. I knew what it was. Irresistibly, I was drawn in. I couldn't avoid it. It is exactly what I'd expect from you!

Unsure if this is a compliment, or an insult.

njtommy

@KC_Jones you sound like some of the women we deal with on a daily basis of one being hot and the other cold all the time. It's truly a balancing act.

ChrisJ

njtommy said:

@KC_Jones you sound like some of the women we deal with on a daily basis of one being hot and the other cold all the time. It's truly a balancing act.

You're my hero now!
That was a great response.

njtommy

@ChrisJ I was up your way last week in Tewksbury talk about a nice town.

BobC

DOS was king back then. My first was a1988 10Mhz Compu-Add At clone with 1MB ram and a 20 Mhz hard drive. It had a 12" amber monitor and an epson 9 pin printer.

I ran WordPerfect 5, Lotus 123 v2.4, dBase3+ and VersaCad on that machine. To be honest that machine was faster than the i5 (with 12Gb ram and a 2TB disk) I run now because the software was tiny compared to the bloatware we have now. The best part is that old machine never had BSOD it just ran and ran.

Bob

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

By the way,

Anyone else realize if Dan Holohan retires this thread title may just become a reality?

Both steam and hot water need the help provided by this website and books.

Erin will be Dan's successor. I have full confidence in her abilities to maintain this site to Dans standards. It's genetic you know.

ChrisJ

BobC said:

DOS was king back then. My first was a1988 10Mhz Compu-Add At clone with 1MB ram and a 20 Mhz hard drive. It had a 12" amber monitor and an epson 9 pin printer.

I ran WordPerfect 5, Lotus 123 v2.4, dBase3+ and VersaCad on that machine. To be honest that machine was faster than the i5 (with 12Gb ram and a 2TB disk) I run now because the software was tiny compared to the bloatware we have now. The best part is that old machine never had BSOD it just ran and ran.

Bob

I only run home built machines, have since 2001 and all of my machines now run SSDs for programs and OS. Even my 2008 AMD 6000+ box has an SSD with Windows 10 on it at work.

An SSD and a fresh minimal install of Windows 7 or 10 will turn almost any computer into a rocket. If you don't like Windows, Linux has many flavors that work excellent as well and typically are faster than Windows except for gaming.

But an SSD is key and they're very affordable now.

KC_Jones

njtommy said:

@KC_Jones you sound like some of the women we deal with on a daily basis of one being hot and the other cold all the time. It's truly a balancing act.

When it's 92° inside the office, I don't think that is an unwarranted complaint. Also in the winter if it is 52° I think that is worth a complaint also. And no I am not kidding at all. I sat one entire winter at my desk in a medium length Carhartt coat and a Vornado running under my desk. It was frigid.

ChrisJ

KC_Jones said:

njtommy said:

@KC_Jones you sound like some of the women we deal with on a daily basis of one being hot and the other cold all the time. It's truly a balancing act.

When it's 92° inside the office, I don't think that is an unwarranted complaint. Also in the winter if it is 52° I think that is worth a complaint also. And no I am not kidding at all. I sat one entire winter at my desk in a medium length Carhartt coat and a Vornado running under my desk. It was frigid.

Wow that's not the fault of the type of system, that's either how management is controlling it, or the system is grossly undersized.

MarkS

I like how forced hot air uses no electricity and has no moving parts. Right, @ChrisJ?

ChrisJ

Harvey Ramer said:

Question for the steam guys. What temp do you get the water to boil in a vacuum system?

I'm wondering this too.
I assume you mean a typical vacuum system?

ChrisJ

MarkS said:

I like how forced hot air uses no electricity and has no moving parts. Right, @ChrisJ?

Gravity hot air can get that credit actually......
And mock me all you want but you know as well as I do a coal or wood fired steam boiler uses no electric.

njtommy

@KC_Jones yeah that really sucks.

KC_Jones

ChrisJ said:

KC_Jones said:

njtommy said:

@KC_Jones you sound like some of the women we deal with on a daily basis of one being hot and the other cold all the time. It's truly a balancing act.

When it's 92° inside the office, I don't think that is an unwarranted complaint. Also in the winter if it is 52° I think that is worth a complaint also. And no I am not kidding at all. I sat one entire winter at my desk in a medium length Carhartt coat and a Vornado running under my desk. It was frigid.

Wow that's not the fault of the type of system, that's either how management is controlling it, or the system is grossly undersized.

No it just breaks a lot. It keeps up now, but a couple years ago it was horrible. It got bad after the addition...was really hacked up. Thermostat for a conference room in a hallway dumb stuff like that.

njtommy

I think vapor steam is 150f? I think I read that one time can't remember

Gordy

Speaking of kitchen faucets.......I got screwed today by Kohler.

My single handle pull out locked up would not swivel. Called Kohler lifetime warranty. Send you a new one on back order. Okay.

Shows up at my door today 4 days after call. Cartridge broke off in handle. Pullout is SS, and faucet is brushed nickel. Suppose to be brushed nickel.

Nice.....

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

Speaking of kitchen faucets.......I got screwed today by Kohler.

My single handle pull out locked up would not swivel. Called Kohler lifetime warranty. Send you a new one on back order. Okay.

Shows up at my door today 4 days after call. Cartridge broke off in handle. Pullout is SS, and faucet is brushed nickel. Suppose to be brushed nickel.

Nice.....

I've seen several "lifetime warranties" that were misleading IMO.
The kind that claim "for the lifetime of the product" which, on a video card I was told was 2 to 3 years, so they wouldn't replace it.

What I've seen that is far more common is where the return shipping is as much as a new product.

BobC

@ChrisJ I have a 4 year old HP i3 laptop that I put a 240GB SSD into and it runs great. It dual boots win 7 and linux mint.

Bob

Harvey Ramer

If vapor steam is at 150 degrees, you could use a compressor for the heat plant. You could get some decent efficiency out of a system like that.

Gordy

I have had other claims on this faucet. No questions asked. Button for the spray to,stream fell out into the running garbage disposal. Now this. It's 7 years old. I went out, and bought the cartridge 18 bucks. It's a 300 dollar faucet.

What cooks my grits is I still have the original crane shower mixing valve its 63 years old still working.......

Harvey Ramer

All the new faucets I have touched in my career have been rubbish except for the ones the camp in a velvet pouch and cost as much as an engagement ring.

Gordy

Harvey Ramer said:

If vapor steam is at 150 degrees, you could use a compressor for the heat plant. You could get some decent efficiency out of a system like that.

That has moving parts Harvey

Harvey Ramer

True, but still...

ChrisJ

@Gordy Get yourself a T&S Brass faucet and stop playing games with a company that charges only for their name.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

@Gordy Get yourself a Tb&S Brass faucet and stop playing games with a company that charges only for their name.

The wifey.......

Doesn't get much simpler than this....

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

Harvey Ramer said:

If vapor steam is at 150 degrees, you could use a compressor for the heat plant. You could get some decent efficiency out of a system like that.

That has moving parts Harvey

I sense some sarcasm in your tone.

Gordy

Don't get thin skinned on me now Chris.