Big fat boiler in progress

ChrisJ

smh= shaking my head.

I used bushings on my WM EG-45 (now an EG-40) but it was within the boiler's specifications and I used both outlets which I didn't have to.

Going up a bit and then going to a reducer is better but like I said earlier, there's thousands of ways to get the same job done. Just because one guy's way is different doesn't make it wrong.

Abracadabra

JohnNY said:

Yes. Two equalizers.
I'm using the piping specs for the 211A-08

@JohnNY which manual is that from? The I&O manuals for Peerless I've installed show a second equalizer only from -16 and up. Just wondering, cause I installed a -9 a month ago with a single equalizer. Maybe boiler I got had an older manual? Dunno.. Always thought that the 2nd equalizer was to help balance the pressure across the header on longer headers, but then you see WM not recommend a 2nd equalizer on even longer headers... so.. *shrug*

jonny88

Thanks Chris for the explanation.A gent as always.

JohnNY

Abracadabra said:

JohnNY said:

Yes. Two equalizers.
I'm using the piping specs for the 211A-08

@JohnNY which manual is that from? The I&O manuals for Peerless I've installed show a second equalizer only from -16 and up. Just wondering, cause I installed a -9 a month ago with a single equalizer. Maybe boiler I got had an older manual? Dunno.. Always thought that the 2nd equalizer was to help balance the pressure across the header on longer headers, but then you see WM not recommend a 2nd equalizer on even longer headers... so.. *shrug*

Peerless's literature leaves a lot to be desired, @Abracadabra. I've found that out the hard way a few times.
What I posted is a screenshot from the "Catalog Literature", which my rep said is their best piping spec sheet.
But you're right. The I&O manual contradicts some of their other diagrams and tables.

SWEI

Manual calls for a single 5" riser. Gateway installed two 4" risers for ~28% more area.

JohnNY

Yeah, and at significant material cost. But it's gonna look pretty and that's important.

jonny88

Im sorry but i am with Chris.How much material was saved,why not use a full 6inch tapping its given to you.Manuals are for minimum specs.You use a 6 inch header anyway.The drop header will save you no doubt but my initial question was if you kept with a full 6 inch tapping and piped "to boilers Specs" could you have eliminated drop header.What would the result have been.Even better keep everything full size to drop header.What did you save.I am asking out of curiousity not a knock on the install.Looking pretty is beautiful functionality is more important.At Dans seminar we all saw the glass fired steamer and its unbelievable what goes on in those pipes.
@Hatterasguy and @ChrisJ am I that far off here.

SWEI

At full tilt and 1 PSI, the 211A-7 would push 40 FPS through each riser and 25 FPS in the header.

JohnNY

jonny88 said:

Im sorry but i am with Chris.How much material was saved,why not use a full 6inch tapping its given to you.Manuals are for minimum specs.You use a 6 inch header anyway.The drop header will save you no doubt but my initial question was if you kept with a full 6 inch tapping and piped "to boilers Specs" could you have eliminated drop header.What would the result have been.Even better keep everything full size to drop header.What did you save.I am asking out of curiousity not a knock on the install.Looking pretty is beautiful functionality is more important.At Dans seminar we all saw the glass fired steamer and its unbelievable what goes on in those pipes.
@Hatterasguy and @ChrisJ am I that far off here.

Who is talking about "saving" anything? When did that become the point of this post?
How many drop headers do we see on here that were done for no reason whatsoever. I chose to do it this way. Why is this bothering you?

JohnNY

You're funny.

Bob Bona_4

Sounding like the 25 Taco pumps post. Carry on.

JohnNY

How are you doing, @Bob ?
It's funny. I got two messages today from people that want to have a professional conversation about the "great installation job" my company is doing on this 211A, thanking me for posting the pics, and telling me they stopped posting on The Wall because they don't feel they're communicating with their professional peers and spending too much time fielding comments from the same 6 people that post non-stop, in nearly every thread.

The Wall has always gone through this since its inception.

jonny88

John I am trying to take in everything here on this site and there is a lot to learn.Its not bothering me in the slightest.You cant learn if you don't ask questions thats all.Sorry for asking a ? Bob didnt realize it was taken out of context.Again as I said beautiful install and please show us the venting.

DanHolohan

Jeez, you guys are starting to sound like the Republican debates. JohnNY does some of the best work I have ever seen, and I've seen, and written about, plenty.

I'd trust him with any project. This one looks good to me.

DanHolohan

No, we can't go back to what once was, sweet as it was, because of current regulations on efficiency. I've been talking about that for my whole career. Thanks for reading me, and for bringing it up yet again. We work with what we have, not what we'd like to have.

ChrisJ

DanHolohan said:

Jeez, you guys are starting to sound like the Republican debates. JohnNY does some of the best work I have ever seen, and I've seen, and written about, plenty.



I'd trust him with any project. This one looks good to me.

Though it is true, you said to always use ALL tappings and use them at full size.

JohnNY

The stats say Hatterasguy joined in November 2014. He's got 3,190 posts as of this moment. That's 8 posts per day for 400 days.
He just has to post or I guess he'll stop breathing. He just sent me a private message saying my work is "below any level of acceptability by any measure". Good stuff, right?

By comparison, I've got 1,600 posts since 2003.
I guess I need to stop running a 40-year-old boiler service, installation and maintenance company, and a new consulting business, so that I can spend more time commenting on other people's work on the internet having merely a marginal amount of information about the jobs.
I post here because I'm an advertiser and a professional and my participation is both valid and an appropriate way to further my business.

Well done, Hatteragsuy. Let me know next time my pursuit in making a living interferes with your day.

DanHolohan

Chis, as many as you can, sure. But that's where the industry gets into a debate. Some boiler manufacturers will call for so many risers, while others will call for fewer. The contractor then faces competitive challenges that could make or break the sale. We all have to deal with the real world, but the proof is in the way the job preforms when delivered to the customer. There are many steam-piping techniques used that many people just don't get to achieve the maximum efficiency.

John is my Brother in the General Society of Mechanics and Tradesman of the City of New York, founded in 1795. He, along with James Gallo, Alex Weiss, and I, are in the midst of taking the GSMT's iconic NYC building back to where it should be, and doing so in simple ways of the Dead Men that have too long been ignored. We will cut that building's fuel bill in half when we're done, and I will write about it. We know what we're doing.

People buy what the system does, not what the system is. In John I trust.

JohnNY

My question stands. And so does my follow up. I'm fully exposed here. My name. My company. My license number.My phone number.
Who are you? What is your name? What is your company?

DanHolohan

JohnNY said:

My question stands. And so does my follow up. I'm fully exposed here. My name. My company. My license number.My phone number.
Who are you? What is your name? What is your company?

Gotta say, I've wondered about that myself. How about it, Hat? Ready to step out from behind the curtain?

Harvey Ramer

I've been here since 2008 and have seen nothing but excellence and professionalism from @JohnNY

JohnNY

Hatterasguy said:

DanHolohan said:

JohnNY said:

My question stands. And so does my follow up. I'm fully exposed here. My name. My company. My license number.My phone number.
Who are you? What is your name? What is your company?

Gotta say, I've wondered about that myself. How about it, Hat? Ready to step out from behind the curtain?

Most know who I am. You do as well. I had the pleasure of speaking with you again on Wednesday.

Clearly he doesn't. Right?

DanHolohan

Then just say your name. A simple request between adults.

JohnNY

Hatterasguy said:

I sent you a PM regarding the matter.

Wow.

DanHolohan

Got that. I think you should step out for the rest of the men and women. Be proud of who you are, sir.

BobC

I've followed JohnNY on this forum for several years and although I'm not a tradesman I recognize good work when I see it. I'd be proud to have one of his installs in my basement.

If I may, I think this comes down to what could be done vs what is done under the pressure of the current market. Everybody has a budget in mind when a boiler has to be replaced and the installer has to walk a fine line between what could be done and what will work and be acceptable from a budgetary point of view.

Bob

JohnNY

Thank you @BobC.
Again, this configuration is represented one of the manuals, and there is another arrangement of piping out of frame that makes it all make a bit more sense. My installation is solid.
My job will perform flawlessly and my clients will be more than satisfied when they hand over final payment.
Know how I know? Because that's how all my jobs go.
In an industry that works on the profit margins we have available to us, we haven't got another choice.
Again, thank you.

Tinman

I think everyone should represent their real names. Many go by some awesome nicknames like Hot Rod and Ironman but their given names are listed right below their aliases for all to see.

Rich and I bump heads from time to time but it's nice knowing who you're dealing with.

Anonymity is a must in some places, not so much here.

JohnNY

Thanks, Brian.

DanHolohan

Thanks, Brian. Welcome to HeatingHelp.com. Thanks for stepping up.

DanHolohan

Amen!

Steamhead

Well, now that I've had a chance to sit back and read all the comments, I'll say John did a good job.

Remember, the velocity in the risers from the boiler to the new drop header must be kept low to keep water from coming up with the steam. The 4-inch pipe between the two headers can use a higher velocity, and as the steam makes the sharp turn from the 6-inch drop header to the 4-inch connector it will tend to shed any water traveling with it, which will roll down to the equalizer.

Also, since the old header is still there, if any water gets past the new drop header- which is unlikely- the old header will finish the job of separation.

We've used this "double-header" arrangement several times where an old header was still there and was sized properly. It works nicely.

JohnNY

Thanks, Frank. This boiler uses the same end sections for 20 sizes of heat exchanger. The output of the 7 section doesn't nearly necessitate using two full sized tappings. That's from the manufacturer. As an installer, I'm thankful to keep the purchase of 6" fittings under control. Again, I piped for the 8-section and the second header is 6" with multiple 4" take-offs.
I'm covered nicely.
The double header is a favorite of mine when doing an EDR calculation that allows me to reduce a replacement boiler by several sizes. The headers are always oversized for the new boiler, yet often not located to match up with the new header, so I'll use 'em both. Works great. Just costs me a little more insulation up front.

Double D

JohnNY, do you have pics of the completed install? Does this boiler have the new and improved Hi-Lo fire option on it?

Mad Dog_2

Beautiful Job as usual Johnny. Never mind comments from the peanut gallery. Mad Dog

Mad Dog_2

Absolutely, Frank. Me too. Why wouldn't you utilize existing piping that will only aid dry steam production? Again, great job bro. Mad Dog