Big fat boiler in progress

JohnNY

Peerless 211A.
Fun stuff.

Mark Eatherton

A steamer eh... Nice job.

Abracadabra

They haven't changed the design on those things in forever.... I wish they'd move the ignition control box. I always bang my shins on that damn thing.

nicholas bonham-carter

Is that gate valve for skimming? I wonder if it would work even better with a full size elbow in front, pitching down. That would give a wider throat to capture a wider surface of flow.
At least, that's the setup on my 211a.--NBC

JohnNY

I hear you, NBC. That 2" gate valve looks tiny on that 4" tee, doesn't it...
I'm drawing the line though. 2" will skim just fine.

EzzyT

What size header you guys piping with that boiler?

nicholas bonham-carter

You can still use the smaller gate valve, just put a full size elbow on and use the valve vertical. The throat of the full size elbow is wider, increasing the surface area of the oils being removed off. You can even use a one inch valve , and still have the wider area.
Here is a situation where a connection down to the returns below that valve (kept open), would collect and trap oily water, which could be drained periodically from a tee at waterline height. If during steaming, one percent per hour of the surface water splashes into that circuit, and is trapped there, and then drained off, the boiler is skimming itself.--NBC

DanHolohan

NBC, I have to go with John on the skimmer. With a horizontal skimmer, we can see the waterline by looking into the valve by skimming. With an elbow, we wouldn't know for sure where the waterline was. Also, I agree that a 2" skimmer is large enough to get the job done. Going to 4" might save a bit of time (although I doubt that) but the cost of the 4" elbow would just add unnecessary cost to the job.

I love this stuff.

ChrisJ

Hmmm.

Upside down gatevalve as a skimmer. Could lower the gate half way and skim in the middle.


If you want to save time forget skimming and use a wand like Gerry Gill. To be honest, if I was installing these for a living I'd only skim 5 gallons out quickly after washing with a wand.

Wand + hot water = happy.

nicholas bonham-carter

This is certainly not a "l'm right, and John is wrong".
The gate valve will do the job, just slower than rotating the tee, so that you capture a 5 inch ribbon of oily surface water instead of a 2 inch wide one.
Even using the gauge cock port would work (after hundreds of hours!).
Will you follow the Peerless suggestion of using Arm&Hammer washing soda to boil it out?--NBC

DanHolohan

I didn't mean it that way, NBC. Sorry if my post offended.

NYplumber

Nice job. Looks like the guys have a gym at work with all that pipe turning.

Two comments/q's, however i dont want them to be taken in a condescending manner.

Im not a fan of a dry base boiler on blocks with no filler under the burner. I find this changes the combustion air greatly.

Second, why go back with a cast iron when a steel boiler was there?

Lastly, never seen casting like that. The holes look cool.

ChrisJ

My response was also not to be taken as a "you're all wrong" post.

Just hoping to save guys time and perhaps give them better results. Those that have tried a wand find it works for them as well. A little extra time hooking a hose up and sitting there with a bucket under the drain saves a whole lot of time in the end and the result is a clean boiler and a happy customer.

Many seem to think you need to just let it run on the floor. Gerry did this in his video because there was a floor drain right there and it was the best solution but there's no reason you can't throw a bucket under the boiler drain or anywhere else you let the water run from.

You should still install a skim port, but remove 98% of the muck and oil with a wand.


As far as suggestions for skim ports, there's a thousand ways to get the same thing done and many solutions work better for some guys than others. Do what works for you.

DanHolohan

Here's Gerry, washing it out: https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/washing-out-a-steam-boiler/

JohnNY

Dan, why on earth are you apologizing?

DanHolohan

Because I'm old.

JohnNY

Makes sense.

ChrisJ

This is why I installed a brass coupler and a brass plug for my skimmer after a ball valve failed.

Of course, that brass coupler and brass plug cost more than a valve......But it looks awesome so I've got that going for me.

ChrisJ

DanHolohan said:

Because I'm old.

Debating giving this a disagree.
It'd be both Dan's only disagree and yet, a compliment.

I don't like it though. We need you.

DanHolohan

LOL

DanHolohan

Thanks for that. Means a lot.

JohnNY

Two 4" boiler risers into a 6" drop header with two 2-½" equalizers and out to a single 4" system riser.
This steam better be dry!

Tinman

@ChrisJ - I only "liked" it because I thought the quick back and forth between JohnNY and Dan was funny ; ).

Tinman

@JohnNY - Not a steam guy (yet) so I need to ask some questions only because I don't know.

Could the risers have come straight up from the boiler into a header w/o the drop header?

It looks like you have the needed 24" and did it to make the piping less complicated?

The fact that the piping turns back down after valve confuses me. Steam won't have a problem with that?

lchmb

nothing wrong with being old..just means we still remember our manor's unlike today's generation..;)

DanHolohan

Stephen Minnich said:

@ChrisJ - I only "liked" it because I thought the quick back and forth between JohnNY and Dan was funny ; ).

You should see us when we get together.

ChrisJ

There are plenty of older people with awful manners not just "today's generation".

JohnNY

@Stephen Minnich
The piping turned downward is what I'm assuming is one of the original boiler headers. It's got an equalizer pipe on it with a trap dripped into a wet return. I've still got some work to do there. I don't see the point of removing the old 6" header and as you can see I've added my own dropped header. Yes, it is sometimes easier and certainly cheaper to install a standard header, especially considering the price of 6" cast iron fittings:
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Ward-FCITE6-6-Black-Cast-Iron-Steam-Tee
But I need this to work, as all jobs, as well as it can and the new header will provide a better quality of steam.
This boiler replacement job is well north of $50K and having gotten my price, my client will get the best I can provide.
( @Dan Holohan should I remove the price info?)

JohnNY

DanHolohan said:

Stephen Minnich said:

@ChrisJ - I only "liked" it because I thought the quick back and forth between JohnNY and Dan was funny ; ).

You should see us when we get together.

Yeah, that's a sight. The wives are never impressed.

Tinman

WOW! On the T.

tim smith

John, note about putting atmospheric boiler on blocks, ask me how I know . We ran into ignition problems with a burnham atmospheric over and over again, because they either don't put a bottom pan on there support frame under the burner rack or it was just how the air travels when their is ground right under the plate, I don't remember for sure. The extra distance to the ground caused air disturbance on fire up and was a bear to figure out. Taught us to put plate across blocks to create a bottom pan. Then combustion, air as it was drawn in would flow as designed and not create un wanted air currents. Just fyi, may not be the case with yours but might be also.

JohnNY

Yes. Timmie McElwain taught me all about inserting a bottom pan sheet under the boilers we put on blocks. Client insisted on it here based on past flooding. Thanks, Tim Smith.

Abracadabra

JohnNY said:

Two 4" boiler risers into a 6" drop header with two 2-½" equalizers and out to a single 4" system riser.
This steam better be dry!

@JohnNY what do you mean two 2-½" equalizers? Do you have an equalizer on each side of the header? Can't seem to make out two equalizers in the picture.

JohnNY

Hatterasguy said:

JohnNY said:

Two 4" boiler risers into a 6" drop header with two 2-½" equalizers and out to a single 4" system riser.
This steam better be dry!

You have a steam velocity of 80 ft/sec in the single 4" system riser. Think that's going to work out for you?

You got 3150 EDR connected to that?

Picture a compressor trying to blow through a 1/8" hole...............it gets all red in the face.

There's more to the distribution piping than the single 4" riser. But thanks for doing the math for me.

JohnNY

Yes. Two equalizers.
I'm using the piping specs for the 211A-08

JohnNY

Hatterasguy said:

JohnNY said:

Hatterasguy said:

JohnNY said:

Two 4" boiler risers into a 6" drop header with two 2-½" equalizers and out to a single 4" system riser.
This steam better be dry!

You have a steam velocity of 80 ft/sec in the single 4" system riser. Think that's going to work out for you?

You got 3150 EDR connected to that?

Picture a compressor trying to blow through a 1/8" hole...............it gets all red in the face.

There's more to the distribution piping than the single 4" riser. But thanks for doing the math for me.

You had better consider bringing more of it to the header.

Anytime.

There's a second header. This boiler replaces one more than twice its output.

ChrisJ

It may perform better with a full 6x6x6 tee that get's reduced to 4" at that 45 or 90. That would slow up the steam exiting the header. My fear is that 4" pipe sucking water out with it at the header.


Other than that I don't feel I can comment. If the steam is already dry by the time it hits the 4" riser there's no water for it to pull with it. Same reason Gerry Gill's 3/8" tubing works to feed steam.

JUGHNE

So does the header slope away from the riser end?

jonny88

I was always taught to never use a bushing on the outlet of a boiler.Please correct me if I am wrong.Love the drop header idea but $for $ what would work better here.A full 6 inch header or the drop header.Thanks for sharing your pics.Could you please take a pic of vents on mains,would love to see.

JohnNY

smh

jonny88

Sorry not up on the abbreviations a simple ? thats all.Never seen a bushing at that point, heatinghelp I thought just wanted to make sure its ok as I may try on my next install.Joke went over my head Bob whoops.