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Big fat boiler in progress

JohnNY
JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
Peerless 211A.
Fun stuff.
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Harvey RamerTinmanBob Bona_4Robert O'Connor_124Johnpipe
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Comments

  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    A steamer eh... Nice job.
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    They haven't changed the design on those things in forever.... I wish they'd move the ignition control box. I always bang my shins on that damn thing.
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    Is that gate valve for skimming? I wonder if it would work even better with a full size elbow in front, pitching down. That would give a wider throat to capture a wider surface of flow.
    At least, that's the setup on my 211a.--NBC
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    I hear you, NBC. That 2" gate valve looks tiny on that 4" tee, doesn't it...
    I'm drawing the line though. 2" will skim just fine.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,294
    What size header you guys piping with that boiler?
    E-Travis Mechanical LLC
    Etravismechanical@gmail.com
    201-887-8856
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    You can still use the smaller gate valve, just put a full size elbow on and use the valve vertical. The throat of the full size elbow is wider, increasing the surface area of the oils being removed off. You can even use a one inch valve , and still have the wider area.
    Here is a situation where a connection down to the returns below that valve (kept open), would collect and trap oily water, which could be drained periodically from a tee at waterline height. If during steaming, one percent per hour of the surface water splashes into that circuit, and is trapped there, and then drained off, the boiler is skimming itself.--NBC
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,512
    NBC, I have to go with John on the skimmer. With a horizontal skimmer, we can see the waterline by looking into the valve by skimming. With an elbow, we wouldn't know for sure where the waterline was. Also, I agree that a 2" skimmer is large enough to get the job done. Going to 4" might save a bit of time (although I doubt that) but the cost of the 4" elbow would just add unnecessary cost to the job.

    I love this stuff.
    Retired and loving it.
    Mike
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    edited January 2016
    Hmmm.

    Upside down gatevalve as a skimmer. Could lower the gate half way and skim in the middle.


    If you want to save time forget skimming and use a wand like Gerry Gill. To be honest, if I was installing these for a living I'd only skim 5 gallons out quickly after washing with a wand.

    Wand + hot water = happy.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    This is certainly not a "l'm right, and John is wrong".
    The gate valve will do the job, just slower than rotating the tee, so that you capture a 5 inch ribbon of oily surface water instead of a 2 inch wide one.
    Even using the gauge cock port would work (after hundreds of hours!).
    Will you follow the Peerless suggestion of using Arm&Hammer washing soda to boil it out?--NBC
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,512
    I didn't mean it that way, NBC. Sorry if my post offended.
    Retired and loving it.
  • NYplumber
    NYplumber Member Posts: 503
    Nice job. Looks like the guys have a gym at work with all that pipe turning.

    Two comments/q's, however i dont want them to be taken in a condescending manner.

    Im not a fan of a dry base boiler on blocks with no filler under the burner. I find this changes the combustion air greatly.

    Second, why go back with a cast iron when a steel boiler was there?

    Lastly, never seen casting like that. The holes look cool.
    :NYplumber:
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    edited January 2016
    My response was also not to be taken as a "you're all wrong" post.

    Just hoping to save guys time and perhaps give them better results. Those that have tried a wand find it works for them as well. A little extra time hooking a hose up and sitting there with a bucket under the drain saves a whole lot of time in the end and the result is a clean boiler and a happy customer.

    Many seem to think you need to just let it run on the floor. Gerry did this in his video because there was a floor drain right there and it was the best solution but there's no reason you can't throw a bucket under the boiler drain or anywhere else you let the water run from.

    You should still install a skim port, but remove 98% of the muck and oil with a wand.


    As far as suggestions for skim ports, there's a thousand ways to get the same thing done and many solutions work better for some guys than others. Do what works for you.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,512
    Retired and loving it.
    ChrisJ
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    Dan, why on earth are you apologizing?
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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    TinmanMike
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,512
    Because I'm old.
    Retired and loving it.
    TinmanHatterasguylchmb
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    Makes sense.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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    Tinman
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    This is why I installed a brass coupler and a brass plug for my skimmer after a ball valve failed.

    Of course, that brass coupler and brass plug cost more than a valve......But it looks awesome so I've got that going for me.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    unclejohn
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    edited January 2016

    Because I'm old.

    Debating giving this a disagree.
    It'd be both Dan's only disagree and yet, a compliment.

    I don't like it though. We need you.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    DanHolohanHatterasguyNew England SteamWorks
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,512
    LOL
    Retired and loving it.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,512
    Thanks for that. Means a lot.
    Retired and loving it.
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    Two 4" boiler risers into a 6" drop header with two 2-½" equalizers and out to a single 4" system riser.
    This steam better be dry!
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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    RJMCTAFO4JohnpipeSWEI
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
    @ChrisJ - I only "liked" it because I thought the quick back and forth between JohnNY and Dan was funny ; ).
    Steve Minnich
    ChrisJ
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
    @JohnNY - Not a steam guy (yet) so I need to ask some questions only because I don't know.

    Could the risers have come straight up from the boiler into a header w/o the drop header?

    It looks like you have the needed 24" and did it to make the piping less complicated?

    The fact that the piping turns back down after valve confuses me. Steam won't have a problem with that?

    Steve Minnich
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    nothing wrong with being old..just means we still remember our manor's unlike today's generation..;)
    New England SteamWorks
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,512

    @ChrisJ - I only "liked" it because I thought the quick back and forth between JohnNY and Dan was funny ; ).

    You should see us when we get together.
    Retired and loving it.
    TinmanJohnNYSWEI
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    There are plenty of older people with awful manners not just "today's generation".
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    BrewbeerSolid_Fuel_ManRich_49
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    @Stephen Minnich
    The piping turned downward is what I'm assuming is one of the original boiler headers. It's got an equalizer pipe on it with a trap dripped into a wet return. I've still got some work to do there. I don't see the point of removing the old 6" header and as you can see I've added my own dropped header. Yes, it is sometimes easier and certainly cheaper to install a standard header, especially considering the price of 6" cast iron fittings:
    http://www.supplyhouse.com/Ward-FCITE6-6-Black-Cast-Iron-Steam-Tee
    But I need this to work, as all jobs, as well as it can and the new header will provide a better quality of steam.
    This boiler replacement job is well north of $50K and having gotten my price, my client will get the best I can provide.
    ( @Dan Holohan should I remove the price info?)
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226

    @ChrisJ - I only "liked" it because I thought the quick back and forth between JohnNY and Dan was funny ; ).

    You should see us when we get together.
    Yeah, that's a sight. The wives are never impressed.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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    Bob Bona_4
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
    WOW! On the T.
    Steve Minnich
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,752
    edited January 2016
    John, note about putting atmospheric boiler on blocks, ask me how I know :o. We ran into ignition problems with a burnham atmospheric over and over again, because they either don't put a bottom pan on there support frame under the burner rack or it was just how the air travels when their is ground right under the plate, I don't remember for sure. The extra distance to the ground caused air disturbance on fire up and was a bear to figure out. Taught us to put plate across blocks to create a bottom pan. Then combustion, air as it was drawn in would flow as designed and not create un wanted air currents. Just fyi, may not be the case with yours but might be also.
    Bob Bona_4
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    Yes. Timmie McElwain taught me all about inserting a bottom pan sheet under the boilers we put on blocks. Client insisted on it here based on past flooding. Thanks, Tim Smith.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    JohnNY said:

    Two 4" boiler risers into a 6" drop header with two 2-½" equalizers and out to a single 4" system riser.
    This steam better be dry!

    @JohnNY what do you mean two 2-½" equalizers? Do you have an equalizer on each side of the header? Can't seem to make out two equalizers in the picture.
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226

    JohnNY said:

    Two 4" boiler risers into a 6" drop header with two 2-½" equalizers and out to a single 4" system riser.
    This steam better be dry!

    You have a steam velocity of 80 ft/sec in the single 4" system riser. Think that's going to work out for you?

    You got 3150 EDR connected to that?

    Picture a compressor trying to blow through a 1/8" hole...............it gets all red in the face.
    There's more to the distribution piping than the single 4" riser. But thanks for doing the math for me.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    Yes. Two equalizers.
    I'm using the piping specs for the 211A-08
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226

    JohnNY said:

    JohnNY said:

    Two 4" boiler risers into a 6" drop header with two 2-½" equalizers and out to a single 4" system riser.
    This steam better be dry!

    You have a steam velocity of 80 ft/sec in the single 4" system riser. Think that's going to work out for you?

    You got 3150 EDR connected to that?

    Picture a compressor trying to blow through a 1/8" hole...............it gets all red in the face.
    There's more to the distribution piping than the single 4" riser. But thanks for doing the math for me.
    You had better consider bringing more of it to the header.

    Anytime.
    There's a second header. This boiler replaces one more than twice its output.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    edited January 2016
    It may perform better with a full 6x6x6 tee that get's reduced to 4" at that 45 or 90. That would slow up the steam exiting the header. My fear is that 4" pipe sucking water out with it at the header.


    Other than that I don't feel I can comment. If the steam is already dry by the time it hits the 4" riser there's no water for it to pull with it. Same reason Gerry Gill's 3/8" tubing works to feed steam.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,042
    So does the header slope away from the riser end?
    JohnNY
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
    I was always taught to never use a bushing on the outlet of a boiler.Please correct me if I am wrong.Love the drop header idea but $for $ what would work better here.A full 6 inch header or the drop header.Thanks for sharing your pics.Could you please take a pic of vents on mains,would love to see.
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    smh
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
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  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
    Sorry not up on the abbreviations a simple ? thats all.Never seen a bushing at that point, heatinghelp I thought just wanted to make sure its ok as I may try on my next install.Joke went over my head Bob whoops.