Radiant design service suggestions - between joist retrofit

cooleyis

I am looking for an outfit that can help design a new between-joist, oil fired, radiant system for my 1967 Alaskan home.

The house: 2 story with a full basement. Concrete floors in the basement with the expectation that I will run a couple of in-wall or radiator systems there. Basement ceiling joists are exposed and relatively free of utilities - though they are cross braced. First story ceiling joists are also currently exposed so I would like to address that now as well.

I would like to run the pex myself, however I am looking for an honest and reputable firm that can help me determine what I will need in terms of number of zones, size of tubing, quality and spacing of aluminum plates, boiler systems, etc.

Does anyone have experience working with a remote design company like Uponor, Radiantec, or Jane's radiant?

SWEI

If Uponor gives you a design, you can trust it. That's all I'm going to say.

Rich_49

Feel free to contact me to discuss .

jimd

Hi to all. I read a lot of time reading this site, it's great to see so many people willing to help each other.

I live in Pa about 30 SW of Phila. Old stone farmhouse, 22" think stone walls, no insulation, old double hung single glaze windows. House built between 1789 and 1810, roughly 1900 sq ft. Old coal burner converted to oil burner with cast iron radiators. I hate buying oil.
Heat loss caps come in ariund 70k. I would like to install a mod/con boiler and use the existing radiators this winter and change over to all radiant tubing for next season. As I have started to gut on side of the house I can either put tubing under the floor or on top? I will do other side of house next spring and summer. Thus eliminating all cast iron radiators. The old chimney will have liner installed and a soapstone wood stove added.
I am a builder so a lot of this will be DIY so I have some questions.
I like what I read about the Bosch green star, the Viessmann Vitodens 200 and US Boiler K2. I am leaning towards the K2 because U.S. Boiler is only about 30 miles from me.
Do all mod cons require a boiler pump or primary / secondary piping? Does it make sense to do the house with no zones since I will also use the wood stove, a Rannai silent servant and I also use a vent free stove. I see a lot of online companies that make up manifolds and piping systems, anyone have any experience?

I realize there is a lot more to consider but I wanted to get the conversation started. Thanks for any feedback.

Bob Bona_4

Tread carefully. Infiltration, the silent and deadly killer of radiant is likely to be high here. A design MUST be done. You may (ok, probably will) find the need for supplemental heat everywhere.

RobG

jimd said:

Hi to all. I read a lot of time reading this site, it's great to see so many people willing to help each other.

I live in Pa about 30 SW of Phila. Old stone farmhouse, 22" think stone walls, no insulation, old double hung single glaze windows. House built between 1789 and 1810, roughly 1900 sq ft. Old coal burner converted to oil burner with cast iron radiators. I hate buying oil.
Heat loss caps come in ariund 70k. I would like to install a mod/con boiler and use the existing radiators this winter and change over to all radiant tubing for next season. As I have started to gut on side of the house I can either put tubing under the floor or on top? I will do other side of house next spring and summer. Thus eliminating all cast iron radiators. The old chimney will have liner installed and a soapstone wood stove added.
I am a builder so a lot of this will be DIY so I have some questions.
I like what I read about the Bosch green star, the Viessmann Vitodens 200 and US Boiler K2. I am leaning towards the K2 because U.S. Boiler is only about 30 miles from me.
Do all mod cons require a boiler pump or primary / secondary piping? Does it make sense to do the house with no zones since I will also use the wood stove, a Rannai silent servant and I also use a vent free stove. I see a lot of online companies that make up manifolds and piping systems, anyone have any experience?

I realize there is a lot more to consider but I wanted to get the conversation started. Thanks for any feedback.

You should start a new thread on this. Just cut and paste and start anew.

Zman

As to the OP, you should thoroughly understand the difference between open and closed systems as well as the difference between a hot water heater and a heating boiler. Not all people selling these systems do.

cooleyis

I am no expert in any of this so i appreciate any and all feedback, comments, thoughts, and concerns. My initial research has me thinking that a closed system with glycol is probably the way to go considering how intensely cold it can get here. I'd hate to be opening these floors back up after sealing them in. That would seem to necessitate a closed system.

Currently I have a big inefficient electric water heater that needs to go. I don't use much electricity anywhere else - such that when i fill my big tub, I'm reminded of it when the electric bill comes. I don't know if one boiler can handle both the hot water from my well and a glycol system or if separate units would be needed.

I see a lot of trash talk about the between joist retrofits and their effectiveness and just enough positive experiences to keep me interested in installing one. It's hard to wade through the vigorous opinions on both sides and come out with an understanding of whether this is a viable option or not.

We will be replacing all of the windows and doors over the next two years and intend to replace the siding, and fir out 5'' of insulation when we do so. That should help, but the increase in window size and number is also going to have an effect.

Please keep your comments coming and if you know of another relevant thread, i'd much appreciate being pointed there.

Thanks!

RobG

Contact Uponor/Wirsbo and get a referral of a certified radiant professional in your area.

Ironman

Or, you can also try Rehau.

RobG

Ironman said:

Or, you can also try Rehau.

I almost forgot, duh. You can contact the RPA (Radiant Professionals Alliance) for referrals.
http://www.radiantprofessionalsalliance.org/Pages/default.aspx

hot_rod

cooleyis said:

I am no expert in any of this so i appreciate any and all feedback, comments, thoughts, and concerns. My initial research has me thinking that a closed system with glycol is probably the way to go considering how intensely cold it can get here. I'd hate to be opening these floors back up after sealing them in. That would seem to necessitate a closed system.

Currently I have a big inefficient electric water heater that needs to go. I don't use much electricity anywhere else - such that when i fill my big tub, I'm reminded of it when the electric bill comes. I don't know if one boiler can handle both the hot water from my well and a glycol system or if separate units would be needed.

I see a lot of trash talk about the between joist retrofits and their effectiveness and just enough positive experiences to keep me interested in installing one. It's hard to wade through the vigorous opinions on both sides and come out with an understanding of whether this is a viable option or not.

We will be replacing all of the windows and doors over the next two years and intend to replace the siding, and fir out 5'' of insulation when we do so. That should help, but the increase in window size and number is also going to have an effect.

Please keep your comments coming and if you know of another relevant thread, i'd much appreciate being pointed there.

Thanks!

There are some top notch installers in Alaska, where are you located?

Sometimes a site visit is money well spent. A good radiant contractor can give you options and direct you to products that are supported in Alaskan. In the rare unlikely event a product fails on a cold Alaskan winter night

cooleyis

I am down on the Kenai peninsula just outside of Soldotna. I'm happy to pay on the front end to get it done right and hear the thoughts of someone with some experience in our area.

Thanks for the tips on referrals.

cooleyis

RobG said:

Ironman said:

Or, you can also try Rehau.

I almost forgot, duh. You can contact the RPA (Radiant Professionals Alliance) for referrals.
http://www.radiantprofessionalsalliance.org/Pages/default.aspx

Looks like there are zero RPA dealer/contractors in AK . . . opportunity knocks.

hot_rod

cooleyis said:

I am down on the Kenai peninsula just outside of Soldotna. I'm happy to pay on the front end to get it done right and hear the thoughts of someone with some experience in our area.

Thanks for the tips on referrals.

Whites Plbg and Heating is in that town, radiant experts and nice folks.