working with ThermoFin, and shower wall radiant

hot_rod

Here are some of the methods I used to do radiant walls.
It really helps to pre-drill the plates, then use a small countering screw wood or grabber screw to keep it all flat
Same for cutting them, leave them in the box and cut the whole stack in one swipe
Either horizontal or vertical works, but going across the studs risks potential nail shots from the cement board installer
Use furring strips for vertical installations to stay away from the stud where they nail the cement board
Tighter tube spacing works faster and spreads the heat more evenly, 6" OC would be ideal, maybe 3/8" tube
Warm pex shapes better, Uponor or Mr pex are the most flexible, 3/8 PAP works also
Pneumatic palm nailer with plastic tip drives the tube in, wear ear plugs!
I tried to incorporate warm shower walls on every new construction job, even if it wasn't a radiant installation, often without telling the owner, it's a real crowd pleaser
A 2-1/2 or 6 gallon electric water heater is usually plenty of HP, install the appropriate element to get the output you need. You can buy up to 5500W elements 18,700 BTU/hr.

Some of the premade dry systems would work also, Roth, Viega, Uponor, etc. But I would not use the particleboard type panels behind a shower wall.

jonny88

some great ideas there thanks for sharing.How do you install insulation on outside wall under window if I am looking at it correctly.

Tim Potter

Thanks HR,
That is just what I was looking for. Much appreciated!

Tim

hot_rod

I think that window is in the room behind the bath? Not too many windows in showers around here, or master bath showers on exterior walls, for that matter.

Gordy

HR ever worry about plate contact against substrate in your vertical method? Some blocking to insure that plates stay against substrate material?

hot_rod

The plates are "proud" of the studs so the substrate, when nailed to the studs should keep everything in contact. not a lot of load in a shower, just trying to warm the surface a few degrees.

The floor would be heated also, that is the best conduction to the body.

Mark Eatherton

Gordy, we used a rigid fiberglass for support to insure good contact. Important to insulate behind the radiant source, otherwise you WILL get gains into areas that may not need or want it, even inside walls. Recommend doubling R value in outside walls (use rigid foam).

In my professional opinion and personal experience, radiant walls are one of THE most overlooked opportunities for radiant retrofit in this radiant world. It is much less noticeable to lose 1-1/2" of wall space then it is to lose 1-1/2" to 2" of floor to ceiling height. It works better than a floor as it pertains to the human comfort factor because your body has the ability to absorb more radiant energy than it would from a floor, and due to the fact that you are not in contact with the surface, the wall can generate more BTUH than a floor can. Remember, its about human comfort FIRST, and building conditioning SECOND. We need to change our way of thinking in this regards.

Try it out on your own home first, and once convinced, it will make you a believer and make convincing your customers will be getting the information from a first hand, experienced source.

Floors have their applications (bathrooms, swimming pools, etc) but walls AND ceilings can be done for less money and deliver just as good a radiant experience as floors can.

If we as an industry are going to push the ball forward, we are going to have to start thinking outside of the typical hydronic box.

Thanks for the excellent post HR. You are truly a radiant pioneer.

ME

Gordy

Mark I would give you an insightful,Agree, and like. Since I can only do one it is insightful. A "DEEP" understanding.

HR not questioning methods, lean twords vertical never know the substrate installers capabilties. Nice info on techniqhes

j a_2

Installed in my own daughters, shower walls,behind the tile and under the tub....she loves it.....She loves me to

Tim Potter

j a, any Pic's?

Thanks, Tim

j a_2

I can see if I can dig them up it was 3 years ago...actually I did the whole first floor in radiant....Her house is 1100 sq feet per floor...Its the best form.of heat ever