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Coffee is to cup as Radiant is to slab.

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Harvey Ramer
Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
Just thought I would share a couple pics.

Viega Rapid Grid and 5/8" Mr. Pex on 15" spacing. 1600 sf. Took 1 guy (me) 5 hrs. to lay in the Rapid Grid and pipe. The rest of the day insulating around the edges, trimming, a bit-o-this and a bit-o-that.

For the Radiant Journeymen;
I chose 15" spacing because I easily could do so and still meet the heat load at a low water temp; and they will be wearing shoes in the shop, so they won't readily notice heat striping from the pipes. 5/8" pex was chosen, with 250' loops so the ModCon can be piped straight into the system without primary secondary.

The manifold is installed and pressurized, with a garbage bag over it and the tubing risers. This will prevent the over zealous concrete guys from getting everything splattered up. You know they will try.
Bob Bona_4Rich_49Tinman

Comments

  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,741
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    Beautiful work! Dan should add a "Wall of Pride" section like another website I have seen. I think it would be great for the average person stopping into this site to see what truly great work looks like!
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    Harvey Ramer
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    Nice work. Is that an Axiom PEX-Pal I see? I've grown fond of them -- the "wiggle room" in those openings makes manifold installation much easier. Watch out for concrete guys filling the cells.
    Harvey Ramer
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
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    Always been leery of spacing more than 9-12" (9" seems to be my go to, maybe 12 in garages) in residential. ..but if you've got a good track record at 12-15....great!

    Nice looking job!
    Harvey Ramer
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
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    Beautiful.Used Rapid Grid before and liked it.A ? ,why did you not use Viega pipe etc.I am curious as I am looking at a job and am hearing great things about Mr Pex.Have you used it a lot .Thanks for sharing.
    Harvey Ramer
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    Is that expanding foam you used to keep the pex down in the turns?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
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    nice work, the color makes for a great pic.

    I have done a bunch of large truck shops around my area with the Watts Radiant design at 18" oc.
    500 foot loops of 3/4 makes for some wide coverage and fewer manifold connections.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    jonny88Harvey Ramer
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,379
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    Is that expanding foam you used to keep the pex down in the turns?

    The board will hold the tubing down by itself. My guess would be it's there for when the expansion slots are cut, but I'll let Harvey tell why.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Harvey Ramer
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
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    @Ironman ,again looks beautiful.So many manufacturers on the market.When I do a job I have used Viega and they do design etc.How do you approach your jobs do you do your own.Is the kitchen on your pic and if so where do cabinets go.Thanks again for sharing looks great and the perimeter insulation makes all the difference as I have learned .Amazing how much you can do in a day.Thanks again.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    I'm actually somewhat curious about the edge insulation trim detail there. Is the foundation wall right behind it, with the wall plates on top of that?
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
    edited April 2015
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    @jonny , just a guess that Harvey may prefer PexA pipe as opposed to B or C . Harvey , could you verify or deny ? Real nice install by the way .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    Harvey Ramer
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
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    Good morning Rich that is what I was figuring.I was really looking for his input on Mr Pex as it is readily available where I am.By the way who carries Phoenix in NY.Thanks Rich.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
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    Call Emerson Swan in Randolph ,Mass . They will get you the contact information for a local guy or you can e mail me or PM with your e mail address or i can call you and give you Mike Oppel's contact information including Phone number which would probably be easiest . I'll just call you now .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    Thanks for the nice words, guys!

    @SWEI That is a Pex Pal you see. Big thumbs up on that product. Helps clean everything up in the manifold area.

    @Bob Bona You won't get any complaints by going with wider tube spacing in a shop area. People will be wearing shoes with insulated soles and will never feel the difference. I'm not just guessing about that. Different job, 15,000 sf @ 16" spacing, around 50 different people on it and not one complaint.

    @jonny88 I have used Viega pipe before on occasion. It is Pex-B and not as nice to work with. By and large I stick with Pex-A. As far as Mr. Pex is concerned, nice stuff. Really can't tell much difference between it and uponor as far as flexibility and toughness. Why did I choose it when I normally use Uponor, it's a bit less expensive and when doing the loop-to-coil mapping I try to end up with the least amount of waste possible. Different manufacturers have different coil sizes. Mr. Pex fit the job. It does leave a little bit of a tacky residue on your hands though. Not a big deal, washes right off.

    @Abracadabra Bob is correct. The spray foam spots you see are where the controlled joints in the concrete are going to be. I use the blue can "window and door" stuff as it stays soft. Much faster and easier than trying to split a conduit or something to put around the tube.

    @Ironman Nice job! These kinds of panels are certainly a pleasure to work with. It's certainly amazing how fast and easy the work goes when compared to other methods.

    jonny88Tinman
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    Both jobs look awesome!

    I've used similar products on overpours but we have to use mesh in this area which rules it out in most cases...kind of ridiculous because I don't think I've ever seen the concrete guys pull up the mesh like they're suppose to.
    Steve Minnich
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    Both jobs look awesome!

    I've used similar products on overpours but we have to use mesh in this area which rules it out in most cases...kind of ridiculous because I don't think I've ever seen the concrete guys pull up the mesh like they're suppose to.

    Getting the tubing in the center of the slab is desirable. The logistics of achieving that, are often unrealistic. Or that is how I have found it.
    RobG
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    I agree.
    Steve Minnich
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
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    Nope Harvey, I'm content the tube just doesn't float up at pour :). Can't really control much once that chute comes down and the guys are knee deep.

    Will keep that spacing you mention in mind for commercial. Nice to have real world feedback. My Uponor ADS as you know can vary the spacing, I'm guilty of being conservative in the res arena
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
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    Stephen why are the restricting you to mesh ?i agree with you on a previous post it is nice to be there for pour
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,379
    edited April 2015
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    jonny88 said:

    @Ironman ,again looks beautiful.So many manufacturers on the market.When I do a job I have used Viega and they do design etc.How do you approach your jobs do you do your own.Is the kitchen on your pic and if so where do cabinets go.Thanks again for sharing looks great and the perimeter insulation makes all the difference as I have learned .Amazing how much you can do in a day.Thanks again.

    @jonny88 .
    I usually do my own design which is not difficult with most jobs. With one big open area like this one, I'm not really concerned with the cabinet layout as it won't make a lot of difference. I know on some it will depending upon the room, floor plan and heat loss. Radiant floors, like most hydronic systems, are somewhat forgiving if the basics are right.

    The tubing loop is a little shorter where it goes under the bath and there'll be a towel warmer in there, too.

    This one will be powered with solar and a mod/con.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    @jonny88 - All of the municipalities in or around the Chicago area that I've done radiant with a 4" pour or more, requires the mesh.

    If the mesh isn't pulled up it serves no purpose other than a means to strap the pex.

    I'd love to be able to just "walk" the pex into panels. It would be so much easier on the knees.
    Steve Minnich
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    @Abracadabra Bob is correct. The spray foam spots you see are where the controlled joints in the concrete are going to be. I use the blue can "window and door" stuff as it stays soft. Much faster and easier than trying to split a conduit or something to put around the tube.

    Forgive me as I don't install radiant, but always interested in learning. How does the spray foam protect your tube when expansion joints are cut? Is it just to have more tube free of concrete to allow it to move?
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
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    @Stephen Minnich ,Yep know all about it.We used to do the mesh until we found out about Rapid grid.Sucks for you that they wont allow it.Its a complete package.Take care
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    #3 bar on chairs is the only "stays in the middle of the pour" model I really trust at this point. I'd love to find a less labor intensive option that would keep tubing ~1-1/2" below the surface.
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    @Abracadabra Bob is correct. The spray foam spots you see are where the controlled joints in the concrete are going to be. I use the blue can "window and door" stuff as it stays soft. Much faster and easier than trying to split a conduit or something to put around the tube.

    Forgive me as I don't install radiant, but always interested in learning. How does the spray foam protect your tube when expansion joints are cut? Is it just to have more tube free of concrete to allow it to move?
    It's to prevent a shear point on the tube when the concrete cracks. And it will. You want to have about 6" or so of tube that has the ability to bend or stretch a bit as the concrete moves over the years. Another good reason to stick with Pex-A, as it can be stretched till it's as this as a pencil without breaking.
    jonny88Zman
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,379
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    @Abracadabra Bob is correct. The spray foam spots you see are where the controlled joints in the concrete are going to be. I use the blue can "window and door" stuff as it stays soft. Much faster and easier than trying to split a conduit or something to put around the tube.

    Forgive me as I don't install radiant, but always interested in learning. How does the spray foam protect your tube when expansion joints are cut? Is it just to have more tube free of concrete to allow it to move?
    It serves the same function as a sleeve in giving the tubing a little area to move as each section of the slab does. Without it, the tubing would be torn as the sections of the slab move. This is an essential step that amateurs often miss, but the error can be very costly when a leak occurrs.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    jonny88
  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
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    Ironman said:


    @Abracadabra Bob is correct. The spray foam spots you see are where the controlled joints in the concrete are going to be. I use the blue can "window and door" stuff as it stays soft. Much faster and easier than trying to split a conduit or something to put around the tube.

    Forgive me as I don't install radiant, but always interested in learning. How does the spray foam protect your tube when expansion joints are cut? Is it just to have more tube free of concrete to allow it to move?
    It serves the same function as a sleeve in giving the tubing a little area to move as each section of the slab does. Without it, the tubing would be torn as the sections of the slab move. This is an essential step that amateurs often miss, but the error can be very costly when a leak occurrs.
    I believe ME posted photos a few years ago of what can occur when expansion joints are not respected.