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Customer wants new heater

Installed generic tank WH in December, last Friday the homeowner noticed water leaking. Found that it came from a poorly done Sharkbite fitting. Fixed it right away but the homeowner is demanding a new heater be installed as the leak got her insulation all wet and ruined it. Near as I can tell, the water ran down the flue in the center. Would you plumbers think the tank should be replaced?
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Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,842
    Was it an A.O. Smith heater? ;)

    If it's fiberglass, the insulation should be fine when it dries out.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • John Mills_5
    John Mills_5 Member Posts: 935
    Bradford White
  • bmwpowere36m3
    bmwpowere36m3 Member Posts: 512
    Did you put in the sharkbite that leaked?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,037
    Most tanks are foamed these days, once they get saturated, it's tough to dry them out. The plain steel tank will rust from outside in if the insulation traps moisture
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • AlCorelliNY
    AlCorelliNY Member Posts: 63
    Sharkbite???
    Al Corelli

  • John Mills_5
    John Mills_5 Member Posts: 935
    Yes, it was our Sharkbite fitting that leaked. Couldn't have been long and I think most of the water ran down the center so not sure how much of the insulation got it.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,611
    edited April 2015
    Get rid of the Sharkbite fitting and she keeps the water heater . The insulation will dry since it is able to dry .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    If I paid to have a water heater professionally installed, and caught you using sharkbites, you'd have to call a surgeon to get my foot out of your butt. I know we're suppose to be nice, but that's an embarrassment.
    AlCorelliNYjonny88Solid_Fuel_Man
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,975
    edited April 2015
    Yeah,

    I too wouldn't allow sharkbites in my house. I view them as a hack job honestly.

    I don't care if they are the same design connected used on air brake lines, those don't sit in a house for 40-100 years getting exposed to chlorine. And if an airbrake line does fail (and they do!), the brakes lock up, they don't flood your house while you're away for a week.

    That said,
    What does Bradford White say about the wet insulation?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    AlCorelliNY
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    Thinking I ran into wet insulation issue before, for some reason the word mold came up…Maybe worth looking into
  • John Mills_5
    John Mills_5 Member Posts: 935
    I prefer soldered copper but customers want cheap and with commissioned salesmen, anything that speeds things up and works (if done right which this one wasn't) they call for, sad to say. She's having us call a plumber to look at it and be the decider. I'm not too worried about mold after just a few hours of being wet. 120° tank will dry that stuff out pretty quick after the leak stopped and I don't think it got too wet anyway.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,195
    If you are not a plumber why are you installing water heaters?
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    Rich_49jonny88
  • Mark N
    Mark N Member Posts: 1,090
    Why not use Pro Press connections if you're not going to solder?
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    Big Box installation? In other words they tell you what to use?
  • 4Johnpipe
    4Johnpipe Member Posts: 479
    edited April 2015
    Pulled this out of a house that was just built on pilings after Super Storm Sandy. This passed inspection?!? I am also an inspector so this really agitates me...
    LANGAN'S PLUMBING & HEATING LLC
    Considerate People, Considerate Service, Consider It Done!
    732-751-1560
    email: [email protected]
    www.langansplumbing.com
  • 4Johnpipe
    4Johnpipe Member Posts: 479

    LANGAN'S PLUMBING & HEATING LLC
    Considerate People, Considerate Service, Consider It Done!
    732-751-1560
    email: [email protected]
    www.langansplumbing.com
    Charlie from wmass
  • 4Johnpipe
    4Johnpipe Member Posts: 479
    This is what we put in its place...
    LANGAN'S PLUMBING & HEATING LLC
    Considerate People, Considerate Service, Consider It Done!
    732-751-1560
    email: [email protected]
    www.langansplumbing.com
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,975
    4Johnpipe said:

    This is what we put in its place...

    Is that green handled ball valve approved for natural gas?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,842
    I've seen green-handled ones that were approved for gas.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    Charlie from wmass
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,975
    Steamhead said:

    I've seen green-handled ones that were approved for gas.

    If a valve says "WOG" does the G mean it's ok with NG or LP?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • 4Johnpipe
    4Johnpipe Member Posts: 479
    WOG is for water, oil and gas. It also had CSA approval
    LANGAN'S PLUMBING & HEATING LLC
    Considerate People, Considerate Service, Consider It Done!
    732-751-1560
    email: [email protected]
    www.langansplumbing.com
    RobG
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796

    If you are not a plumber why are you installing water heaters?

    Careful with that Charlie, Lots of homeowners think the laws don’t pertain to them...
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,975
    j a said:

    If you are not a plumber why are you installing water heaters?

    Careful with that Charlie, Lots of homeowners think the laws don’t pertain to them...
    Is that directed at me?
    I certainly hope it's not.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,195
    edited April 2015
    I'm directing this at those who charge for work they are not licensed to do.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    jonny88ChrisJj a_2
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,611
    Chris ,

    I believe that was directed at John Mills
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    ChrisJ
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
    Second that and Charlie is bang on with his comment though.@Rich I am interested to see how JohnNY does with the Phoenix replacement in that restaurant.
    ChrisJ
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    null
    No. Not directed at anyone...I am not the plumbing police...this is a helpful site...My only intention is to help those that need it....That said, my mindset is based on Mass. Laws. But I realize this site is country wide. I try my best to stay away form code issues
  • FranklinD
    FranklinD Member Posts: 399
    I'm a homeowner and try to do as much myself as I can after thorough research. I am a light automotive and heavy equipment mechanic, so a lot of the physical skills transfer. That said, I know my limitations.

    I will install my own water heater. I know the plumbing in my house very well. I know how to solder copper and have been doing low voltage DC and household AC wiring for years. All of that with one caveat: only in MY own home (I assume the same as ChrisJ). I would never touch anything in someone else's home.

    And, even in my own home, I won't touch the gas piping. I don't think it would be too difficult to pipe in a replacement water heater in the same location, buy I'd rather have a guy that's licensed, insured, and has 20 years experience doing it. Not worth the risk to my family.

    I also wouldn't be caught dead using a shark bite fitting on anything other than a very temporary situation (ie, to cap off a pipe during remodeling when the water has to be back on for a couple hrs, etc).

    But that's just me :smile:
    Ford Master Technician, "Tinkerer of Terror"
    Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
    Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems
    Charlie from wmass
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,611
    And you should absolutely be able to install your own heater in your own house . But anyone who takes money from you for this task should be licensed to do so , whatever that requirement is in wherever you are .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    Canucker
  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
    Since you have to sweat a male or female adaptor to attach it to the heater why would you use a Sharkbite fitting if you already have the torch on hand? I use an MC tank and have no problem carrying it in the home. A copper coupling is cheaper than a Sharkbite as well. JMHO
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    I guess it comes down to this, go by the rules,codes and laws depending on where you live...If you choose not to, then so be it.
    .
  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
    I think Sharkbites are approved, so I think it comes down to what you think is right. I would never use one in a customers (or my own) home for anything other than an emergency fix, however I keep enough copper pipe and fittings on the truck to keep crackhead copper thieves satisfied for weeks, so I have rarely used them.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,195
    Population density. If you live in the middle of nowhere and blow up your own home it is bad. If you love near others and also blow up their house it is worse. If your family gets E.coli from you messing up your well it is bad. If due to a bad install the E.coli enters the town waterlines you can get hundreds of people sick.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,975
    FranklinD said:

    I'm a homeowner and try to do as much myself as I can after thorough research. I am a light automotive and heavy equipment mechanic, so a lot of the physical skills transfer. That said, I know my limitations.



    I will install my own water heater. I know the plumbing in my house very well. I know how to solder copper and have been doing low voltage DC and household AC wiring for years. All of that with one caveat: only in MY own home (I assume the same as ChrisJ). I would never touch anything in someone else's home.



    And, even in my own home, I won't touch the gas piping. I don't think it would be too difficult to pipe in a replacement water heater in the same location, buy I'd rather have a guy that's licensed, insured, and has 20 years experience doing it. Not worth the risk to my family.



    I also wouldn't be caught dead using a shark bite fitting on anything other than a very temporary situation (ie, to cap off a pipe during remodeling when the water has to be back on for a couple hrs, etc).



    But that's just me :smile:" alt=":smile:" height="20" />

    Yes, only in my own home and with proper permits from the town. I've had arguments with J A over this before which is why it's a touchy subject for me.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
    All said and done if you are installing a gas water heater you still have to modify gas piping unless you leave the existing 20yr old pipe that was attached to the old water heater.Connecting the water heater water lines is easy and lets not pat each others backs cause you can sweat a 3/4 coupling(hopefully with no drips).Now you have to connect venting and check venting(if inclined to do so).I dont know about the average diy guy(Chrisj)you know its not directed at you but for some reason when I got my license I had to get insurance policies etc.I am with Charlie and J.A on this one.
    j a_2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,975
    jonny88 said:

    All said and done if you are installing a gas water heater you still have to modify gas piping unless you leave the existing 20yr old pipe that was attached to the old water heater.Connecting the water heater water lines is easy and lets not pat each others backs cause you can sweat a 3/4 coupling(hopefully with no drips).Now you have to connect venting and check venting(if inclined to do so).I dont know about the average diy guy(Chrisj)you know its not directed at you but for some reason when I got my license I had to get insurance policies etc.I am with Charlie and J.A on this one.

    This house didn't have natural gas when we bought it other than a 3/4" line in crawl space that is plugged. We assume it was for gas lights.

    I ran all of the piping my self, pressure tested it and had it inspected and approved by the state. The gas company wouldn't have even unlocked the meter until it was approved.

    I've got around 40 feet of gas piping and not one bit of it is CSST. All black iron except for the appliance connectors going to my stove and cloths drier.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    Like I stated. My mindset is based on Mass. Laws....Like it or not i am required to conform... It is illeagle for anyone but a lic. Plumber to preform plumbing work in anyone's house including there own..As far as other states I have not a clue..
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    The sad part about it. Mass. residents are doing their own plumbing "illegally" every day. They know it's "illegal", so it goes un-inspected. So their law probably does more to endanger the public, than protect them. Once you know the punishment, it says it all......$$$$$$.
    ChrisJBenjaminMadore
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,195
    My issue is with people doing plumbing and other trades for hire with no license or any skill. D.I.Y. is a double edge sword.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,975

    My issue is with people doing plumbing and other trades for hire with no license or any skill. D.I.Y. is a double edge sword.

    I don't agree with people doing it for hire. That's a problem.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment