Customer wants new heater

John Mills_5

Installed generic tank WH in December, last Friday the homeowner noticed water leaking. Found that it came from a poorly done Sharkbite fitting. Fixed it right away but the homeowner is demanding a new heater be installed as the leak got her insulation all wet and ruined it. Near as I can tell, the water ran down the flue in the center. Would you plumbers think the tank should be replaced?

Steamhead

Was it an A.O. Smith heater?

If it's fiberglass, the insulation should be fine when it dries out.

John Mills_5

Bradford White

bmwpowere36m3

Did you put in the sharkbite that leaked?

hot_rod

Most tanks are foamed these days, once they get saturated, it's tough to dry them out. The plain steel tank will rust from outside in if the insulation traps moisture

AlCorelliNY

Sharkbite???

John Mills_5

Yes, it was our Sharkbite fitting that leaked. Couldn't have been long and I think most of the water ran down the center so not sure how much of the insulation got it.

Rich_49

Get rid of the Sharkbite fitting and she keeps the water heater . The insulation will dry since it is able to dry .

Paul48

If I paid to have a water heater professionally installed, and caught you using sharkbites, you'd have to call a surgeon to get my foot out of your butt. I know we're suppose to be nice, but that's an embarrassment.

ChrisJ

Yeah,

I too wouldn't allow sharkbites in my house. I view them as a hack job honestly.

I don't care if they are the same design connected used on air brake lines, those don't sit in a house for 40-100 years getting exposed to chlorine. And if an airbrake line does fail (and they do!), the brakes lock up, they don't flood your house while you're away for a week.

That said,
What does Bradford White say about the wet insulation?

j a_2

Thinking I ran into wet insulation issue before, for some reason the word mold came up…Maybe worth looking into

John Mills_5

I prefer soldered copper but customers want cheap and with commissioned salesmen, anything that speeds things up and works (if done right which this one wasn't) they call for, sad to say. She's having us call a plumber to look at it and be the decider. I'm not too worried about mold after just a few hours of being wet. 120° tank will dry that stuff out pretty quick after the leak stopped and I don't think it got too wet anyway.

Charlie from wmass

If you are not a plumber why are you installing water heaters?

Mark N

Why not use Pro Press connections if you're not going to solder?

Paul48

Big Box installation? In other words they tell you what to use?

4Johnpipe

Pulled this out of a house that was just built on pilings after Super Storm Sandy. This passed inspection?!? I am also an inspector so this really agitates me...

4Johnpipe

4Johnpipe

This is what we put in its place...

ChrisJ

4Johnpipe said:

This is what we put in its place...

Is that green handled ball valve approved for natural gas?

Steamhead

I've seen green-handled ones that were approved for gas.

ChrisJ

Steamhead said:

I've seen green-handled ones that were approved for gas.

If a valve says "WOG" does the G mean it's ok with NG or LP?

4Johnpipe

WOG is for water, oil and gas. It also had CSA approval

j a_2

Charlie from wmass said:

If you are not a plumber why are you installing water heaters?

Careful with that Charlie, Lots of homeowners think the laws don’t pertain to them...

ChrisJ

j a said:

Charlie from wmass said:

If you are not a plumber why are you installing water heaters?

Careful with that Charlie, Lots of homeowners think the laws don’t pertain to them...

Is that directed at me?
I certainly hope it's not.

Charlie from wmass

I'm directing this at those who charge for work they are not licensed to do.

Rich_49

Chris ,

I believe that was directed at John Mills

jonny88

Second that and Charlie is bang on with his comment though.@Rich I am interested to see how JohnNY does with the Phoenix replacement in that restaurant.

j a_2

null
No. Not directed at anyone...I am not the plumbing police...this is a helpful site...My only intention is to help those that need it....That said, my mindset is based on Mass. Laws. But I realize this site is country wide. I try my best to stay away form code issues

FranklinD

I'm a homeowner and try to do as much myself as I can after thorough research. I am a light automotive and heavy equipment mechanic, so a lot of the physical skills transfer. That said, I know my limitations.

I will install my own water heater. I know the plumbing in my house very well. I know how to solder copper and have been doing low voltage DC and household AC wiring for years. All of that with one caveat: only in MY own home (I assume the same as ChrisJ). I would never touch anything in someone else's home.

And, even in my own home, I won't touch the gas piping. I don't think it would be too difficult to pipe in a replacement water heater in the same location, buy I'd rather have a guy that's licensed, insured, and has 20 years experience doing it. Not worth the risk to my family.

I also wouldn't be caught dead using a shark bite fitting on anything other than a very temporary situation (ie, to cap off a pipe during remodeling when the water has to be back on for a couple hrs, etc).

But that's just me

Rich_49

And you should absolutely be able to install your own heater in your own house . But anyone who takes money from you for this task should be licensed to do so , whatever that requirement is in wherever you are .

RobG

Since you have to sweat a male or female adaptor to attach it to the heater why would you use a Sharkbite fitting if you already have the torch on hand? I use an MC tank and have no problem carrying it in the home. A copper coupling is cheaper than a Sharkbite as well. JMHO

j a_2

I guess it comes down to this, go by the rules,codes and laws depending on where you live...If you choose not to, then so be it.
.

RobG

I think Sharkbites are approved, so I think it comes down to what you think is right. I would never use one in a customers (or my own) home for anything other than an emergency fix, however I keep enough copper pipe and fittings on the truck to keep crackhead copper thieves satisfied for weeks, so I have rarely used them.

Charlie from wmass

Population density. If you live in the middle of nowhere and blow up your own home it is bad. If you love near others and also blow up their house it is worse. If your family gets E.coli from you messing up your well it is bad. If due to a bad install the E.coli enters the town waterlines you can get hundreds of people sick.

ChrisJ

FranklinD said:

I'm a homeowner and try to do as much myself as I can after thorough research. I am a light automotive and heavy equipment mechanic, so a lot of the physical skills transfer. That said, I know my limitations.



I will install my own water heater. I know the plumbing in my house very well. I know how to solder copper and have been doing low voltage DC and household AC wiring for years. All of that with one caveat: only in MY own home (I assume the same as ChrisJ). I would never touch anything in someone else's home.



And, even in my own home, I won't touch the gas piping. I don't think it would be too difficult to pipe in a replacement water heater in the same location, buy I'd rather have a guy that's licensed, insured, and has 20 years experience doing it. Not worth the risk to my family.



I also wouldn't be caught dead using a shark bite fitting on anything other than a very temporary situation (ie, to cap off a pipe during remodeling when the water has to be back on for a couple hrs, etc).



But that's just me " alt="" height="20" />

Yes, only in my own home and with proper permits from the town. I've had arguments with J A over this before which is why it's a touchy subject for me.

jonny88

All said and done if you are installing a gas water heater you still have to modify gas piping unless you leave the existing 20yr old pipe that was attached to the old water heater.Connecting the water heater water lines is easy and lets not pat each others backs cause you can sweat a 3/4 coupling(hopefully with no drips).Now you have to connect venting and check venting(if inclined to do so).I dont know about the average diy guy(Chrisj)you know its not directed at you but for some reason when I got my license I had to get insurance policies etc.I am with Charlie and J.A on this one.

ChrisJ

jonny88 said:

All said and done if you are installing a gas water heater you still have to modify gas piping unless you leave the existing 20yr old pipe that was attached to the old water heater.Connecting the water heater water lines is easy and lets not pat each others backs cause you can sweat a 3/4 coupling(hopefully with no drips).Now you have to connect venting and check venting(if inclined to do so).I dont know about the average diy guy(Chrisj)you know its not directed at you but for some reason when I got my license I had to get insurance policies etc.I am with Charlie and J.A on this one.

This house didn't have natural gas when we bought it other than a 3/4" line in crawl space that is plugged. We assume it was for gas lights.

I ran all of the piping my self, pressure tested it and had it inspected and approved by the state. The gas company wouldn't have even unlocked the meter until it was approved.

I've got around 40 feet of gas piping and not one bit of it is CSST. All black iron except for the appliance connectors going to my stove and cloths drier.

j a_2

Like I stated. My mindset is based on Mass. Laws....Like it or not i am required to conform... It is illeagle for anyone but a lic. Plumber to preform plumbing work in anyone's house including there own..As far as other states I have not a clue..

Paul48

The sad part about it. Mass. residents are doing their own plumbing "illegally" every day. They know it's "illegal", so it goes un-inspected. So their law probably does more to endanger the public, than protect them. Once you know the punishment, it says it all......$$$$$$.

Charlie from wmass

My issue is with people doing plumbing and other trades for hire with no license or any skill. D.I.Y. is a double edge sword.

ChrisJ

Charlie from wmass said:

My issue is with people doing plumbing and other trades for hire with no license or any skill. D.I.Y. is a double edge sword.

I don't agree with people doing it for hire. That's a problem.