wet returns

johnnyh13

had to change wet returns and just followed old lines my question is I noticed that they are below boiler level and then come up 6-8 inches at the boiler or few feet be4 with no drain line is that dirty water getting back to boiler and is that piping correct,i feel like water will always be sitting there

Ironman

Pics would really help. But, to form a Hartford loop, it's necessary. I would put in boiler drains so it can be flushed.

Fred

Water will always be sitting in those pipes. That's why they are called wet returns. If you have any mains that loop around your basement and then return to the boiler, after the last radiator run, they become dry returns and have to drop down into a wet return to keep steam from flowing through them, causing water hammer.
Most new installs get some drains/spigots on the wet returns to allow them to be flushed out as a part of annual maintenance but a lot of older systems don't have those. Any dirt in the system will eventually get carried back to the boiler. Most of it will settle in the wet returns, some will work its way into the boiler. You should use the Boiler drain to drain the mudleg in the boiler every two or three months. Drain water until it runs clear.

johnnyh13

how does it work its way back from under basement floor to reach the boiler when it has to go up to reach bottom of boiler at least 8-12 in at places

Fred

Some of it will inevitably float in the water as the condensate returns to the boiler. Also remember when the boiler is running there is steam pushing against the air and ultimately the water in the wet returns and that little bit of pressure helps it along.

johnnyh13

should there be a steam trap at the elbow where the air main valve is and where is the wet and dry meets also same elbow or further down wet return to trap steam as to be more savings on heating up wasted returns with steam even my radiator which is near thermostat I have upside down eventually gets hot

Fred

I'm assuming you have a 1 pipe system since you mention having (I think) the vent on one of your radiators upside down.
No, you don't need a trap on a 1 pipe system. If your Mains are vented at the ends of the Main, steam isn't going into the returns, just air and return water. If the returns are warm, it's just the residual heat from the water that is returning.

As Ironman said, post a couple pictures so we can actually see what type system you have.

Jamie Hall

Is this one pipe or two pipe steam? And there are two fundamental flavours of two pipe as well, with regard to traps and piping.

If this is one pipe steam, you should, if it is parallel flow, have a drop to the wet return at the end of the steam main. There should be a main vent, or vents, very near that drop. There is no need for a trap of any kind there. If it is counterflow, the drop to the boiler return will be at the boiler.

In two pipe, you have a steam main and a dry return, and often a wet return (all may be plural, of course!). The two flavours have to do with what happens at the end of the steam main. In one type, there are main vents at that location and almost always a drip to a wet return -- the main slopes away from the boiler. In the other type, there is a crossover trap to the dry return, for air only, at that location, and a drip to the wet return. The main vents will, in that type, be at the ends of the dry return back at the boiler.

The steam main and the dry return are never directly connected anywhere, so your comment " the elbow where the air main valve is and where is the wet and dry meets" has me rather badly confused.

johnnyh13

2 pipe system at the end of both runs there is a elbow where a vent valve is. one end continues to last radiator and the other side of elbow goes down to wet return I will try to post pics

Jamie Hall

no trap needed.

If steam is getting into returns, however, there is at least one failed trap somewhere on a radiator...

johnnyh13

mine is just so we r talking about the same thing I have steam heat sounds like u are talking about water, did I miss some thing, is this strickly steam forum

johnnyh13

2 pipe system at the end of both runs there is a elbow where a vent valve is. one end continues to last radiator and the other side of elbow goes down to wet return I will try to post pics, said this be4

Fred

We are all talking about steam. We can certainly tell more when you post your pictures. I think it is a 1 pipe but you seem to think it is a 2 pipe. Is there a pipe at each end of each radiator? one that has a valve on it to open and close the supply pipe and at the other end of the radiator another pipe for condensate to return to the boiler? Or just one pipe with a Valve on one end of the radiator and a vent on the other side of the radiator?

johnnyh13

one pipe and steam returns same way

Abracadabra

johnnyh13 said:

2 pipe system at the end of both runs there is a elbow where a vent valve is. one end continues to last radiator and the other side of elbow goes down to wet return I will try to post pics, said this be4

johnnyh13 said:

one pipe and steam returns same way

???

Fred

I thought it was a 1 pipe by some of the things you said early in the post. Per my earlier post, you do not need any traps and there really isn't any place to put a functional trap. The wet returns do the work for you.

vaporvac

Maybe we need a pic of your rads, just to be sure. Someone a while ago thought they had a one-pipe system because only one pipe came out of the boiler when, in fact, it was a two-pipe system. That led to a lot of confusion in the recommendations.

johnnyh13

no 1 pipe in radiator