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wet returns

johnnyh13
johnnyh13 Member Posts: 31
edited March 2015 in Strictly Steam
had to change wet returns and just followed old lines my question is I noticed that they are below boiler level and then come up 6-8 inches at the boiler or few feet be4 with no drain line is that dirty water getting back to boiler and is that piping correct,i feel like water will always be sitting there

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,461
    edited March 2015
    Pics would really help. But, to form a Hartford loop, it's necessary. I would put in boiler drains so it can be flushed.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • johnnyh13
    johnnyh13 Member Posts: 31
    how does it work its way back from under basement floor to reach the boiler when it has to go up to reach bottom of boiler at least 8-12 in at places
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,518
    Some of it will inevitably float in the water as the condensate returns to the boiler. Also remember when the boiler is running there is steam pushing against the air and ultimately the water in the wet returns and that little bit of pressure helps it along.
  • johnnyh13
    johnnyh13 Member Posts: 31
    should there be a steam trap at the elbow where the air main valve is and where is the wet and dry meets also same elbow or further down wet return to trap steam as to be more savings on heating up wasted returns with steam even my radiator which is near thermostat I have upside down eventually gets hot
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,518
    I'm assuming you have a 1 pipe system since you mention having (I think) the vent on one of your radiators upside down.
    No, you don't need a trap on a 1 pipe system. If your Mains are vented at the ends of the Main, steam isn't going into the returns, just air and return water. If the returns are warm, it's just the residual heat from the water that is returning.

    As Ironman said, post a couple pictures so we can actually see what type system you have.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 16,602
    Is this one pipe or two pipe steam? And there are two fundamental flavours of two pipe as well, with regard to traps and piping.

    If this is one pipe steam, you should, if it is parallel flow, have a drop to the wet return at the end of the steam main. There should be a main vent, or vents, very near that drop. There is no need for a trap of any kind there. If it is counterflow, the drop to the boiler return will be at the boiler.

    In two pipe, you have a steam main and a dry return, and often a wet return (all may be plural, of course!). The two flavours have to do with what happens at the end of the steam main. In one type, there are main vents at that location and almost always a drip to a wet return -- the main slopes away from the boiler. In the other type, there is a crossover trap to the dry return, for air only, at that location, and a drip to the wet return. The main vents will, in that type, be at the ends of the dry return back at the boiler.

    The steam main and the dry return are never directly connected anywhere, so your comment " the elbow where the air main valve is and where is the wet and dry meets" has me rather badly confused.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • johnnyh13
    johnnyh13 Member Posts: 31
    2 pipe system at the end of both runs there is a elbow where a vent valve is. one end continues to last radiator and the other side of elbow goes down to wet return I will try to post pics
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 16,602
    no trap needed.

    If steam is getting into returns, however, there is at least one failed trap somewhere on a radiator...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • johnnyh13
    johnnyh13 Member Posts: 31
    mine is just so we r talking about the same thing I have steam heat sounds like u are talking about water, did I miss some thing, is this strickly steam forum
  • johnnyh13
    johnnyh13 Member Posts: 31
    2 pipe system at the end of both runs there is a elbow where a vent valve is. one end continues to last radiator and the other side of elbow goes down to wet return I will try to post pics, said this be4
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,518
    We are all talking about steam. We can certainly tell more when you post your pictures. I think it is a 1 pipe but you seem to think it is a 2 pipe. Is there a pipe at each end of each radiator? one that has a valve on it to open and close the supply pipe and at the other end of the radiator another pipe for condensate to return to the boiler? Or just one pipe with a Valve on one end of the radiator and a vent on the other side of the radiator?
  • johnnyh13
    johnnyh13 Member Posts: 31
    one pipe and steam returns same way
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    johnnyh13 said:

    2 pipe system at the end of both runs there is a elbow where a vent valve is. one end continues to last radiator and the other side of elbow goes down to wet return I will try to post pics, said this be4

    johnnyh13 said:

    one pipe and steam returns same way


    ???
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,518
    I thought it was a 1 pipe by some of the things you said early in the post. Per my earlier post, you do not need any traps and there really isn't any place to put a functional trap. The wet returns do the work for you.
  • vaporvac
    vaporvac Member Posts: 1,520
    Maybe we need a pic of your rads, just to be sure. Someone a while ago thought they had a one-pipe system because only one pipe came out of the boiler when, in fact, it was a two-pipe system. That led to a lot of confusion in the recommendations.
    Two-pipe Trane vaporvacuum system; 1466 edr
    Twinned, staged Slantfin TR50s piped into 4" header with Riello G400 burners; 240K lead, 200K lag Btus. Controlled by Taco Relay and Honeywell RTH6580WF
  • johnnyh13
    johnnyh13 Member Posts: 31
    no 1 pipe in radiator