Circ Flange Types - Which do You Prefer?

icesailor

It isn't that I prefer one pump over another. Its the style of the gaskets that I like. I have a thing about some who decide they know better than the manufacturer. I don't mind the Taco/B&G/Grundfos gaskets. Just that some smart people think they know better than the engineers that design the equipment, and go their own way.

Look around. Start noticing all the leaking circulator flanges. Notice how many have spaced for flat flange shaped gaskets. If they at least used the supplied gaskets to at least fill the channel with a rubber gasket rather than it fill up with water. But they don't. Look at the examples displayed by others. In each and every one, I could see that there was no supplied gasket in place.

For most installations, the person that installs the pump without the proper gasket, won't be the person doing the repair of the leaking pump.

That's all.

hot_rod

It comes down to the correct gasket for the application.

In the case of the Grundfos circ and Grundfos iso valves you must use a flat gasket.

There is a large sealing surface on the pump body that matches the end of the iso flange.

The seal is made there and no water gets to the groove.

If you add the ring gasket in addition to the flat gasket you no longer have a face to face seal as intended, but a thing ring against another gasket, not such a great seal and it spaces the flat surfaces apart so there is no seal as the manufacturer intended. The diameter of the brass end on these iso valves will push right thru the flat gasket and not contact the ring gasket.

Sure, in the circs with large diameter ring gaskets like Wilo, B&G and Armstrong, you need to use their gasket. The flat gasket will not seal those very well.

The problem with the red gaskets you show is the hole is too large to seal anywhere, even with the ring gasket installed with it, in the Taco example. I have no idea why you need a large hole gasket for a pump that has about a 1" hole in the volute? no reason or need for the hole in the gasket to be larger than the hole in the pump body?

That sometimes leads to cracked mounting tabs, like the Taco you show also has from over-tightening a gasket that cannot seal

Again, wrong gasket for the application, besides the fact they get hard and break down. The black EPDM seem to last just fine.

billtwocase

Better pic for you Ice

hot_rod

yes if the piping on both sides of the circ is fixed tightly, getting a replacement pump in with new gaskets takes some finesse.

The wider gaskets used by Wilo, B&G and Armstrong in some models stay in their "seat" better.

With the flat gaskets, put one bolt on both ends thru the pump and gasket, rotate it into place. It helps to spread apart the piping when possible.

I think all installers and service techs develop a method that suits them and the brands they use.

wogpa67

I put a little bit of pipe dope on the o-ring spin it around the circ and spread the piping on the ones that don't have iso flanges. Same thing with iso flanges as HR said but a little dope to hold the gasket. Crack a valve and tighten until it stops leaking.

wogpa67

Most times if you finger tighten it evenly that's all it takes.

icesailor

billtwocase said:

Better pic for you Ice

Taken at Sid's.

I don't see how Califfi flanges won't work with Wilo pumps and gaskets.

When a primary part of your business is service, and you have to service the FU's of others, you quickly figure out what works and doesn't work. If Califfi wants to send black rubber gaskets in the shape of a flange, all well and good. They know what they are doing. For the jaded serviceperson like myself, I know that I might be working with the least common denominator. Who learned that the red runner ones that his old litz boss swore by, and I might end up fixing it.

Above, many mention over tightening of the bolts. It specifically says in the installation packet. do not over tighten the bolts and over flatten the gasket. When you need a heat wrench to get the nuts off the bolts,, and there has been no rusting, you know that they were over tightened. A can of Never-Seize was always available in my bucket. Along with Super lube Synthetic Grease. That doesn't dry out like pipe dope does.

I have to apologize for promoting my bad habits. Mush of the time I was an employee, I worked in a power plant. Where everything done by the maintenance personnel had the intention of being taken apart easily at some time in the future, They used sea water for cooling. Everything was slathered in Never seize. One particularly bad habit I learned and practiced was that when you have gasketed surfaces that must come apart regularly, you slather the metal faces and gasket faces with Never Seize so the gasket doesn't stick to both surfaces and you need to scrape it off. If you only did one side, the gasket would stick to the other side when you removed the plate.

They never used pipe dope on a gasket face. It would dry out and then leak.

billtwocase

No Ice, that was not taken at Sids

icesailor

billtwocase said:

No Ice, that was not taken at Sids

If that was taken at your shop, you have a better collection of nozzles than at Sid's.

Now with that assortment of nozzles you have, and just for bowel movements and outright laughs, take a few of those oddball sizes you have there that you will never use (but you paid for them) and take them along. When you find a burner running like a three legged dog, and it was cleaned within the last month, before you get too far into it, change the nozzle strainer that is a month old for a new oddball strainer. If it improves drastically, its a Beckett, and it doesn't have carbon buildup outside the end cone, you have a dirty nozzle strainer. And it will probably have one of your favorite Pleistocene era filters in place with the elements that pass anything over 100 microns. Carlins and Riello's are the same. Fine sludge is an equal opportunity obstructer.

Abracadabra

New BX has a bonding wire. If it's old BX without the bonding wire I'd replace it.

bmwpowere36m3

I just had a 15-58 in my hand... I thought the cover was plastic, but the lower portion where the wire clamp threads in was cast?

icesailor

Hatterasguy said:

Abracadabra said:

New BX has a bonding wire. If it's old BX without the bonding wire I'd replace it.

Yes, I've seen that wire. Is it bonded to the outer case? Can you use the wire at one end and ignore it on the opposite end if you're in a grounded box?

I believe that the green wire in the new BX is supposed to be bonded to the bonding screw inside the plastic box to the metal frame of the pump.

I'm not a Sparky. Whenever I had my Sparky come to wire up a pump or do any wiring and BX was involved, he always replaced the old BX with the new that had the green bonding wire. If it was Greenfield, he always ran a new green bonding wire.

Who am I to argue with Sparky. It's his name on the permit, not mine.

Bob Bona_4

That thin wire is an aluminum tracer wire not meant for grounding.

icesailor

That's what my Sparky Paul told me.

bmwpowere36m3

Depends on the armored wire as there are a few types containing: bond strip (un-insulated aluminum wire, thin), separate ground conductor, and both bond strip and separate ground conductor.

The bond strip provides equipment ground.

bmwpowere36m3

http://www.afcweb.com/media/afc-1001-mc-ac-installation.pdf

billtwocase

No odd sizes there Ice. .50 > . Common size .75/.85, and I buy by the dozen for those. I don't improvise on correct nozzle, I would rather have for what's out there in my customer base, than just use a semi-solid in hopes that it will work out. See them Hago nozzles? Worth their weight in gold nowdays

bmwpowere36m3

Yes, the bond strip is not to be used as a ground conductor per se... it's bonded (along with the armor) to the electrical box and you pigtail of the box to your device.

billtwocase

This you might like Ice. Off Chapoquoit

jumper

Has anyone here tried Goretex rope instead of gasket or OH ring?

j a_2

Basicly I think most use what there comfortable with. None really better than others as long as the work....you tend to use what your regular supply house sells...pretty simple... Funny story my then apprintiace now who took over my business told me I sent him on a pump replacement and he had no gasket..so what did he do he went into his wallet and used an unused condom. To this day no leaks and no baby pumps. Lol. Crazy foemer Marine. Lol

Steve Minnich

Thanks for clarifying it was unused. : )

j a_2

Lol. Glad to see some humor here. Long winter, lots of itchy people, here. Self included

Bob Bona_4

To clarify, that thin wire is called a "drain" wire and it's purpose is to bond the spirals on the armored cable.

icesailor

billtwocase said:

No odd sizes there Ice. .50 > . Common size .75/.85, and I buy by the dozen for those. I don't improvise on correct nozzle, I would rather have for what's out there in my customer base, than just use a semi-solid in hopes that it will work out. See them Hago nozzles? Worth their weight in gold nowdays

I guess I'm just stupid.

I just don't understand why I should throw something out because some minor part isn't working properly, when I have a multitude of spare parts that fit perfectly, and you think I should just throw them out in the trash.

My ancestry from the Northern part of the British Isles tells me that its wasteful. We're not wasteful.

Paul48

There you have it Steve! ....Turn the info over to R&D, and wait for them to get out of rehab.

icesailor

j a said:

Basicly I think most use what there comfortable with. None really better than others as long as the work....you tend to use what your regular supply house sells...pretty simple... Funny story my then apprintiace now who took over my business told me I sent him on a pump replacement and he had no gasket..so what did he do he went into his wallet and used an unused condom. To this day no leaks and no baby pumps. Lol. Crazy foemer Marine. Lol

Marines are taught to put condoms over the end of their rifle barrels so they don't get mud in the barrel and explode if they fire a round.

Since WW ll.

Everyone knows that.

That boy learned his lessons well. His DI and Gunny would have been proud.

icesailor

billtwocase said:

This you might like Ice. Off Chapoquoit

Right nippy, eh?

Some surfers were surfing the slurppies out on the fog factory.