Best Air Vents

NJHomeowner

So there's no way to put a minimal investment into this boiler to make it better for now and then when it dies replace everything the right way? Figure I probably have a good 5 years left of life in it... Right?

KC_Jones

Well the piping is so bad that anything you do now venting wise is certainly going to change when you have it replaced, so it would probably (not definitely) be wasted money in the long run, but that is just my opinion. With that piping no matter what you do to the rest of the system you are going to be fighting it and probably never really get anywhere.

KC_Jones

Also you said the burner was just converted over to gas and it looks like that low water cut off is new. So you have had professionals in and no one said anything about that piping?

ChrisJ

I agree with others.
Have someone come in that really knows steam well and have a new boiler put in with the proper piping. 30 years is a long time for a steam boiler especially one not running water treatment.

Where are you located? We may be able to recommend someone to you that could save a lot of headaches in the end.

Fred

When a boiler is 30 years old, you may have a day, a week or maybe even 5 or 10 years. It's anyone's guess. mine is 32 years old and, as faithful as it has been, I know the day is coming.
If you are OK with the way it currently heats the house, realizing there are limitations on improving it with the current set-up, then live with it until you are ready to replace it or it dies. Venting, while it will almost always help just won't compensate for poor near boiler piping.

NJHomeowner

I am in Bergen county, nj...

So how much all in should a new boiler with piping fixes cost me?

NJHomeowner

And on the new things plumber who I am using had put cleaning solution, new water cut off etc last year when we first moved in. Cost me $1k so really irritating that nothing else the you all have pointed out was mentioned...

ChrisJ

Mschuh2581 said:

I am in Bergen county, nj...



So how much all in should a new boiler with piping fixes cost me?

We are not supposed to discuss pricing here.
However, I would recommend you give @JStar a call and have him come out.

I'm sure he will be happy to talk things over with you and help you figure out what you want to do.

Thatcher Heating and Air Conditioning

(732) 494-4357
2A Linsley Pl
Metuchen, New Jersey

Ask to speak with Joe.

KC_Jones

We don't discuss pricing on this site. Since you are in NJ you should consider calling @JStar and see if he can look at your system.
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/thatcher-heating-and-air-conditioning

Fred

If you can get Jstar out, you won't be disappointed. He's one of the best and won't steer you wrong.

KC_Jones

To the OP....are you noticing a trend here?

ChrisJ

Mschuh2581 said:

And on the new things plumber who I am using had put cleaning solution, new water cut off etc last year when we first moved in. Cost me $1k so really irritating that nothing else the you all have pointed out was mentioned...

I don't blame you.
When we moved into our house in 2011 we paid a guy a lot and he never mentioned the boiler was rotted. In fact, he said it was like new. He also never mentioned the undersized and plugged chimney that set off a CO alarm shortly after.

NJHomeowner

I'll readh it to him...thank you all for your help!

NJHomeowner

I took a few more pics from around the boiler, just want to be sure outside of the copper pipe coming right from boiler that this is incorrectly piped?

Fred

It is incorrectly piped. Those Mains should tie individually into the Header. The piping to the header should be configured so that it is Riser from boiler, Riser from boiler, Riser to Main, Riser to Main, and then Equalizer down to water return in boiler with Hartford loop in the Equalizer about 2" below the water line.

Abracadabra

If that copper forming a loop is your hartford, not sure how that doesn't create any water hammer, since it should be a close nipple. Maybe it's just too low to ever see steam? *shrug* But yeah, all that other near boiler piping needs to go.

Also, it seems you are using the hoses to drain water from the boiler. I hope you realize that's not "skimming" unless you are doing it for some other reason.

NJHomeowner

I flush it once per month from those hoses about a bucket until it runs clear...is that not the correct thing to do?

Fred

Mschuh2581 said:

I flush it once per month from those hoses about a bucket until it runs clear...is that not the correct thing to do?

That works

Abracadabra

I'd prefer to flush the LWCO so you don't get sediment buildup in the float chamber.

Fred

I flush from my boiler bottom drain once a month (a quart or two is all it takes for clear water) just to keep that mudleg open but I flush from the LWCO weekly during the heating season about a gallon to clear that out).

KC_Jones

I also drain from bottom drain and from my sight glass blow down about once a week. It equals 1 pint of water per week (I use a Pyrex measuring cup to track what I remove). I have a probe LWCO so I don't have to worry about that except once a year at maintenance time.

ChrisJ

I usually don't drain anything all winter and then in the spring drain and wash the boiler out using the wand. I then fill and skim a little out, throw two pills in and let it steam for 15 minutes or so.

Fred

ChrisJ said:

I usually don't drain anything all winter and then in the spring drain and wash the boiler out using the wand. I then fill and skim a little out, throw two pills in and let it steam for 15 minutes or so.

Can't wait that long when you have a MM LWCO with blowdown valve.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

ChrisJ said:

I usually don't drain anything all winter and then in the spring drain and wash the boiler out using the wand. I then fill and skim a little out, throw two pills in and let it steam for 15 minutes or so.

Can't wait that long when you have a MM LWCO with blowdown valve.

True, for that I told my neighbor to do his several quick bursts with the burner on to ensure it actually works.

When we first moved here he drained it once a week but the float was stuck so it didn't even work. Testing a float type LWCO is just as important as draining it.

NJHomeowner

New question...as mentioned earlier,I'm have 12 radiators total, 11 traditional caste iron and one baseboard. The baseboard in our kitchen heats fine but does not retain its heat like the radiators. It's just over 8 feet long (see pic attached)?

What's the best replacement baseboard for a one pipe system? Would I see any improvements? Wife would prefer to keep this one as a baseboard as she plans to add seating along that wall when we eventually redo the kitchen...

KC_Jones

That looks like hot water baseboard, I don't think that is even supposed to be hooked up to steam. And yes it is low mass so it will cool off very quickly after the boiler shuts down. Need something more like this, though in my opinion nothing heats like the radiators, but we all have our preferences.
http://www.usboiler.net/product/baseray-baseboard-radiator.html

NJHomeowner

Forgot to mention, this is over unfinished basement/accessible crawl space...would switching to radiant off the floor be a better choice? Can do this with single pipe steam too...correct?

ChrisJ

Mschuh2581 said:

Forgot to mention, this is over unfinished basement/accessible crawl space...would switching to radiant off the floor be a better choice? Can do this with single pipe steam too...correct?

Typically radiant runs around 75-85F.

I suspect you and your family would not enjoy walking on a 212-215F floor. Might be a little hot, as well as way too much radiation.



I think there is a way to use steam to heat water to do radiant, but that is all well beyond my knowledge.

NJHomeowner

Spec sheet for the baseray says you shouldn't use on a one pipe system?

KC_Jones

hmmm missed that...apologies. Might have to dig around some more. I would be curious what a pro thinks of what you have now. I know Gerry Gill uses baseboard similar to that on his mini tube system, but that is a whole different animal.

NJHomeowner

Ok...guess if anyone knows of something that would retain heat better that's low enough to the ground that seating can be installed above it...or the radiant route?

KC_Jones

Something to think about, if you plan on installing seating along that wall you will cut down on the heat output of what ever is there. You are essentially talking about a radiator cover of some sort which cuts down on heat output. If what you have is cooling down quickly I would have to guess the room either has a noticeable temperature swing or never gets as warm as the other rooms. That is just a guess though. So if that is the case your seating will make this situation even worse especially with low mass like you have. Those low mass really need the air movement to get the heat output. And the cover also cuts down on the radiant qualities as well. Of course your hind quarters would be very toasty with a set up like that.

Fred

There are CI radiators designed for under bench seating. I have two under window bences in my living room. They tend to have a little more mass because they are enclosed and they don't radiate as well as an open radiator but they do work well, especially with a reflective curved lining on the inside top of the bench. Mine are about 16" high. It is a Niagra Window seat radiator but you can find good used ones that are 16 or so inches tall and maybe find one close to the length of the bench you plan to build. What you lose in convection, you probably can make up for in mass.

NJHomeowner

Interesting...any links to where I can find those?

Fred

I think you will have to find/buy the Niagra window bench used if you can find one. Look on this site under the "Buy, Sell, Barter" link on the right side of the page and see what's there. There is a company, I think in the New York area, that was posted on this site a few months ago. I'm sure someone will remember it and post the link. That company made and had a huge warehouse full on new cast iron radiators of just about any size that could be ordered. It doesn't have to be a Niagra. Virtually any short CI radiator will work. I have another window bench that has a short (16" tall) 6 tube radiator under it that works just as well.

vaporvac

Check your local Restore as well. i recently found one there.

Dave0176

You can use the baseboard radiator on one pipe steam, however to avoid the retarded pitch angle and the ensuing water hammer, you would actually pipe the radiator like two pipe, pitched away from the hand valve and down into a loop seal then back up into the main or into a wet return.

nicholas bonham-carter

What about a hot water loop running under the floor? The kitchen could have its own thermostat.--NBC

Steamhead

Mschuh2581 said:

Here's the boiler pics

I'm surprised that Wayne burner works at all on that type of boiler. The Peerless JOT series boilers present a considerable amount of back pressure to whatever burner is on them, and the Wayne P250/P265 burners would have a difficult time overcoming that. This is why the front of the boiler is so discolored- the oil burner probably sooted it up because it couldn't move enough air thru the boiler for a clean burn.

Did anyone do a digital combustion test after installing that burner?

My choice for this boiler would be the Carlin EZ-Gas or the Riello. The new Beckett gas burners might work too but I don't know what their static pressure capabilities are.

And, what's already been said about the piping.

Steamhead

Mschuh2581 said:

Alright, can find two air vents on pipes in basement and here's a better pic of boiler.

Valves I cannot make out any writing on them.

They're Gortons. Not sure what model, but if the hole on the top is about 1/8", that would make them the #D.

How long are the steam mains, and what pipe size?