Wm gv90+6 with an indirect hot water tank

Kirkhj

I'm still wondering if this 1980ish standing pilot weil is still giving me 104 IBR as the label states. The flames are huge. Lol
It seems to be burning as it should.

Kirkhj

Correct me if this is the wrong way of thinking please!
1980 ish 150 btu in standing pilot weil. IBR is 104. Chimney with a 6" liner. No flue damper. No outside air feed. When this thing comes on its easy to find air leaks around the house.
If I change up to a Cgi5 with 119 in and an IBR of 87, which is what I believe is almost bang on, eliminate the chimney, add a fresh air intake, in my eyes could add up to close to 20% fuel savings. Adding anything more than that would only show a small increase of fuel savings at a much higher initial and subsequent maintenace costs and lifespan loss.
Thoughts?

Kirkhj

FranklinD
As a Ford master mechanic this is off the topic but check this out
I had a Lincoln MKS ecoboost.
For a note I added CAI and a stage 4+ tuner. Hp up from 350 to about 425.
Tq.up from 365 to about 425. 12.5 second sleeper she was!
Now for about 2 more of those notes I could add exhaust for another gain of about 12 hp and 16 tq and maybe another .1 in the 1/4...
Now my boiler. Upgrade to 84% with correct sizing and eliminating major causes of the fuel cost or 94% for almost twice the cost and likely half the lifespan? That's an awful lot of years of fuel use here when I do the math and if my theory on this is right.

It won't pull away from a 6.1 SRT like the mks did(barely, but did!) though. Lol

Zman

Kirkhj said:

HVAC nut. No energy kinetics dealers here. I really had that hope but no luck. Ng. Not oil. I also live in small town Canada. None of those options available to me. Nearest contractor is here in town but has simple stock. Weil is very common. Yes reliability and length of service over a few points efficiency for sure! Also thinking of yearly servicing and condensate removal. All can add up!



ZMAN 12 column type CI rads. It's 115 year old house.

Those rads will work well with condensing temps and outdoor reset.
If you go with traditional boiler, you may need to consider boiler condensate protection.
You sound like someone who would like the condensing boilers fancy features. Get someone local to install one per manufactures recommendation and nerd out setting the controls yourself.

Kirkhj

ZMAN lol you are correct about the nerding out on those controls. I have literally sat down there for hours monitoring and adjusting output temps, circulator cut in temps, and high limit setting and adjusting that 15-58 3 speed pump just to see what it does! I did manage on the very coldest day to get that delta down to 22° at 170 supply out...

An ESBE 3 way on the supply 3 way teed above a circulator with a 140 bypass and balancing valve is probably the way I would go to do a conventional. I thing mr holohan or seiganthaler told me that somewhere. Lol. The gv90 does the same thing without piping. Variable speed by IBC controlled taco 007s does that for me if I did go GV 90 and I won't need to add that supply circulator. I do know the Cgi comes with an 007 but I'm not sure if it's included with the boiler price.
Since I almost certainly will do that primary secondary no matter what style of boiler ends up down there, that cost will stay the same. There is a lot of work for me to do that though.
Main reason for that primary secondary is to change from one zone to 2 and hopefully run variable speed delta t circulators on each zone for more control.
One side of the house heats a bit slower than the other since I changed some of the piping. Hoping that's the way to help equalize and add more isolation valves as well.
There are almost none that work and to make matters worse almost no unions. Yup. I had to cut back a 21' length of 1.5" pipe x2, unthread the old stuff and have sections threaded so I could isolate and drain a zone.They literally threaded almost everything from boiler to rads. Must have been a horrible task in 1904 to add unions etc!

Kirkhj

Ok all lets assume these parameters.
Comments please!

Present system.
Standing pilot 150 btu in weil. Test just showed an actual input of 144.
104 IBR
6" flue, no damper, no fresh air in.
Cold start with one 15-58 on the return side
Approx 80 gallon black pipe/ column rads
Heat loss is 88k
High limit at 170 (scared to go higher. Lol)

New system
Weil cgi 119 in 87 IBR 
Power vent. Chimney closed. Fresh air opening. Primary secondary with 2 circulated zones. Or

GV 90+ 105 in 84 IBR same p/s with 2 delta t variable pump circuits.

Realistic?expected savings 10-15 ish % with the CGI and maybe 20% with the GV?

Tried and true is really sounding like a better option here, but in the end because of set up the gv might not cost all that much more.
Opinions please!

DanInNaperville

Zman said:

I guess I will never understand the Gv's, but some folks like them. I just don't know why you would go with "Frankenstein" when you could have 10-1 turndown and higher efficiency.

It's for retrofits where there used to be a cast iron boiler and it would be impossible to be certain that junk wasn't left in the heating runs. Modern watertube boilers can be destroyed by a few grams of old rust sticking in a part of the tube, partially blocking it, causing a hot spot.
The GV90+ tacks a secondary (condensing, stainless steel) hx that's bigger than the main hx in a "modern" boiler because it has wide water passages that don't easily clog.