What does term "Knocked-Down" mean?

Overwhelmed_2

As I now need to replace my cracked (8 year old?) Burnham steam boiler, I was looking online for some idea of what they cost. I searched the size I have now, learned that the one I have has been discontinued and replaced with "Independence IN7 Gas Fired Steam Boiler, NG, Electronic Ignition, Up to 2,000 Ft Altitude, Knocked-Down - 210,000 BTU.



What, please, does the term Knocked-Down mean in this context?



I'm hoping it means that it arrives in pieces, as I can't quite figure out how we'll get a new one in the side door and down the basement steps-- or the old one out.



Yes I am the homeowner, totally new to all of this. Hopefully you can tolerate my total cluelessness for a bit. Thanks!

JStar

Boiler

Not exactly in pieces. Knocked down boilers come with the section block assembled fully, and all of the trim and jackets left off.



Is your existing boiler sized correctly?

Paul48

Why

did your boiler fail in 8 yrs?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Knocked down

Boilers are usually called "packaged" and are completely assembled with all sections, burner, controls mounted ready to be hooked up.  In residential use this is usually  for smaller boilers that are lighter and smaller that can be moved without killing yourself.

Or you can buy a "boiler burner unit" or "knocked down with block assembled" or other such terminology. This is usually the same as a packaged boiler (although some controls may not be included) and includes the assembled block of boiler sections. All other components, burner, controls, jacket,  are included and installed on the job.

"knocked down" means the boiler sections are not assembled. Everything comes in pieces and is assembled on the job... usually for larger boilers.

In the hands of a qualified installer their is no difference. It comes down to the ease or difficulty of access to the boiler room, available man power, size and weight of the boiler and equipment available to move it.

Installing a "package" if possible cuts down on field labor with the idea that anything done at the factory can be done cheaper.

Getting the right installer is the most important thing especially with a steam boiler.

As Paul pointed out "why did the boiler fail" Boilers last a lot longer than 8 years. Your probably paying (again) to replace a boiler that failed early. You need the correct install so it doesn't happen again.

JamesC in Stamford CT

why only 8 years?

It would be good for you to know why the old (actually at 8 years old, not SO old) boiler failed. That way you can hopefully avoid the new one suffering the same fate. Maybe a leak in the system drained the water and it cracked -- in which case the leak must be addressed. Maybe you need an auto feed. Maybe the near-boiler piping was not done correctly when they installed it 8 years ago. Or maybe a number of other possible issues with the old one.



Maybe even the old one was oversized or undersized -- that is why Jstar asked about the size. It would be good if you did calculations to make sure the one you are ordering is the right fit.



Do you have Dan book? That answers 90% of people's questions.

nicholas bonham-carter

Sizing a boiler

This link will take you to a thread discussing the procedure for boiler sizing, and why it is important, so get out your tape measure !!--NBC



http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/144118/Help-Calculating-EDR

ChrisJ

Yuck

I was in your shoes back in 2011 when we bought a house that had a Burnham V8 rott out once in three years and then again in only 5 years according to the previous owner's records.   It wasn't the boiler's fault but I believe caused by multiple leaks, an autofeeder and the type of water here.



I bought a Weil-Mclain boiler that arrived as Jstar said, the block complete and everything else was separate.  I could have broke the block apart into sections if need be but avoided it at all costs as then I'd just have another headache to deal with during reassembly.  Please see the link at the end of this post for pictures of the project start to finish. 



 As others said leaks will mean an early death for the boiler and make sure you buy the correct size.  NEVER assume the one that is there is correct.  The one this house had was way too small which is very rare but still happened.  Grossly oversized is far more common and is even worse in my opinion.

Overwhelmed_2

Working on getting info ...

Thanks, all.



I'm working on getting sizing done. Already I'm hearing the line about "same size or one up" from the older fellow (supposedly expert, per him-- though I did find a classified ad for him online, from a local newspaper, from 1984) I had out here to diagnose the rather extreme water usage.



I was wrong about the boiler age. It was installed in 2003-- still way too young to fail. Not totally sure what caused the crack. I had had some leaks where the radiators join the steam pipes, which I took care of as I could once I realized I had them. Sometimes (due to a very long, sad medical saga that went on for 7 years) that took a while.



The boiler never ran out of water, though, until one day in November I can home from work (yes, old me still has to work, sadly) to the smell of heat and something like burning wax. The boiler's shut-off had failed. I turned it off completely for a few hours, then VERY slowly (over a period of 45 minutes) filled it back to the halfway mark on the glass. It came back on and made steam and heated the house as usual.



About 3 weeks later I finally got around to finding a guy and had him out to deal with the shut-off (which he rebuilt or some such) and also to deal with the remaining leaks I was aware of at the radiators. For those he used a blue liquid, apparently painted on, that off-gassed horribly for a few days but did seem to stop the leaks.



He also replaced a section of copper steam pipe (another nightmare!) in the basement ceiling.



I hoped the boiler's water usage would subside after that, but I don't recall that it did, much. Then during this last very cold snap the boiler needed water twice/day so I called the guy back out and he diagnosed the crack.



He says the overheat incident probably compromised and weakened the cast iron, and it failed a bit later. I don't know enough to know.



I also do not know whether I still have leaks elsewhere on the house. I am old and have a medical condition that compromises my mobility so I don't climb stairs with my cane any more than I have to. One day when my son was here I had him go around the house and feel under each radiator for any moisture. He didn't find any-- but I don't know that that rules out any leaks that may be below the floor-- does that happen too?

JStar

Steam

Copper steam pipe, you say? That is a big no-no, and a huge red flag. Is there a lot of copper piping throughout the system? That could be the cause of the leaking boiler.



Sounds like you need a new contractor, and a steam expert. Where are you located? We may know somebody in the area.

Overwhelmed_2

Yep, I know copper's not good

I'd already aware that the copper is not good. It's been there all 37 years I've been in this house, was there when we moved in. So much for the old guys being so good ...



The piece I had replaced was because it had sprung a leak. I'll replace the rest as I'm able, but it tough to get at since it's up against (almost embedded in, really) the basement ceiling. I don't think there's copper all over the house, certainly assume not. Looks like this may have been an add-on to service a radiator in the ceiling (really!) of a basement rec-room area.



I'm in Detroit.

Overwhelmed_2

Piped Correctly?

James asked whether I'd read the Dan book. Not yet. Ordered it Saturday, will read when it arrives.



He also asked whether my failed boiler had been piped correctly. I don't know. Here are some photos. These photos make the water heater look closer to the boiler than it actually it, which is about a foot away.

Double D

Not even close.

Sorry for the bad news.

ChrisJ

Wrong

As Double D said the piping is completely wrong.



Here is a good video from Dan Holohan which will give you a good understanding of what should be and why.



http://youtu.be/6BCCXW8lA1g

Double D

Independence IN7 Manual

http://ecomfort.com/PDF_files/Burnham/burnham_kin7lnc-ll2_install.pdf