Copper to CI Radiator w/pix

OffRoadAudio

Hello - I've been told by one source that I need to take a spud wrench and take the fittings out of these radiators to make the transition to copper - maybe I'm just delaying the inevitable, but - isn't there an adaptor out there for this? What's the easiest way to go about this? Thanks for any help.



'Frank

Zman

Remove it

The radiator casting has a pipe fitting. It has a reducer bushing threaded into it. The last piece is a mpt to union fitting that used to have it's mate in a valve, that you probably don't have.

If you pull the union, you can thread in the copper into the bushing and be off and running.

It will take less time than this post.

Carl



Um, that is a hot water radiator, right?

Paul48

Used?

If you bought these used, have they been pressure tested?

OffRoadAudio

Thanks

Thanks - yes, hot water, piped bottom - bottom - not pressure tested yet - will pump system with air when ready. Any other thoughts?



Thanks again.

Paul48

Personally

I'd put a new radiator valve, and ell, then change over coming out of them. It's also an opportunity to put a TRV on there,.....Just my opinion.

Mark Eatherton

This will take much longer than typing :-)

First, locate a good spud wrench. Also find a good pipe wrench, say something in the 24" or better range.



Lay the radiator on the ground on its side.



Insert the spud into the nipple, and engage it against the pawls.



Put a small piece of plywood on the floor where the pipe wrench handle will bang into it. In fact, its best to spend the money necessary to get a full piece of plywood and lay the radiator on it if there are precious floor finishes to be protected.



Engage the pipe wrench to the spud wrench which should be firmly engaged with the pawls in the nipple tail piece.. Now, follow this part carefully…



Carefully JUMP on the end of the pipe wrench handle, and snap torque the nipple loose.



If you do it just right, you won't be picking yourself up off the floor. If you do it wrong, you WILL be picking yourself up off the floor. Use caution and make certain that there is no slop in your wrenches. Keep your knees slightly bent so you don't blow a knee out in the process. (Don't ask me how I know this part…)



Now, here's what NOT to try. Do not try simply "coaxing" the fitting out using a large pipe wrench and a cheater, because you WILL shear the pawls off of the inside of the nipple, which will then cause you to attempt to remove whats left of the nipple with a smaller pipe wrench, which will cause the nipple to collapse… leaving you cussing at yourself and the radiator.



In the off chance that you do shear the pawls off, (rare if done right) you're better off taking a hacksaw blade and slicing the inside of the nipple at the 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock position, being cautious to not cut the cast iron bushings threads and then punch out the cut piece. You then should be able to collapse the nipple into itself and pull the nipple out with a pair of channeloc pliers.



When going back together, if you can find some European pipe dope with hemp in it, or find some hemp, roughen up the threads of the male adapter using a hack saw blade, and coat the pipe threads with teflon compound, and then wrap the hemp around the nipple, and tighten into place. When the hemp gets wet, it swells and seals the old threads. If you can't find hemp, ask a local plumber for some oakum. That is a hemp plant soaked in cutting oil (to avoid kids from smoking it).



Good luck with your project.



ME

MikeL_2

In case of a lack of athleticism

I agree with everything Mark says, except for the jumping ( not all of my employees possessed finesse ). i always applied heat to the bushing before attempting the disconnect, and if the pawls sheared, I would cut the union nut off; this allows enough room for a pipe wrench to fit over the brass nipple. Inserting a snugly fit dowel into the nipple will help reduce the chance of crushing it during the process................l've removed hundreds of stubborn nipples this way, without an injury.

OffRoadAudio

Thanks again

for the detailed description. I now have an idea of how to do this. No problem with the athletic part - but I feel like a little heat and maybe some PJ Blaster would be good form as well. I'll follow up with results in the hope that my observations can assist someone down the line.



'Frank

M Lane

I'd use

a grinder with a cut-off wheel to remove the union ring. Then, I would set up a 24" or 36" pipe wrench in the tighten position. Heat the nipple up with your torch, whack the CI bushing a few times (but remember it is cast iron and can shatter) with a maul. Then whack the wrench handle forward. If you can get just a millimeter or two movement forward, it will then back out easily.

If you can't find the exotic hemp pipe dope, try some Grrrip from Hercules.

hot_rod

recent rad rebuild

a friend dropped 15 radiators off at my shop recently. He had already sandblasted and powder coated them against my advise.



I ended up taking the bushings out and starting with new thread at the radiator.



A few came loose with a large socket, most I had to cut and collapse with a hack saw blade and a small chisel.



I used a LocTite 272 bolt locker to install stainless steel reducing bushings. i pressured tested them with an Autofill set to 12 psi.



I also drilled, tapped and installed 1/8 hydroscopic vents up top.



I connected one to the boiler in my shop to see how well it heated with bottom to bottom connections. After several hours the whole radiator was warm, top to bottom, which surprised me.



My biggest concern is the amount of crap inside. I power flushed several times, but I am concerned about rust getting into the TRVs. I'd add a good dirt separator and Y strainer to the system.

icesailor

Adding:

May I add something.

When doing what ME says, I find that laying the radiator down, when facing the radiator, and wanting the RIGHT hand spud or bushing to come out, lay the radiator TOWARDS you so that you are using the entire EARTH as an opposite wrench. And place a 6' step ladder beside the wrench so you can hold on to it while you bounce up or down. If something should suddenly break, you won't go flying. Flip the radiator over to do the other side. If you don't, the force can raise the radiator off the floor and the feet will dig into something. My old late boss always told us to ALWAYS use two wrenches. One to twist on and the other to back up the opposite force.

Two slits in the nipple at 6 and 12:00 O' Clock work well but a third one at a combination of 2 O' Clock works better and put it at the top wherever so you cab whack it with a screwdriver and remove a small wedge piece. It will completely remove the compression on the nipple and another whack on one of the remaining pieces will allow you to easily remove the remaining nipple with a pair of needle nose pliers.

If the old dead guys had had Teflon Pipe Tape and the pastes we have today, there wouldn't have been any of the old pastes that drive us nuts today. The stuff that leaks. The old dead boss used to rave about Glycerin and Litharge (whatever it was, I never saw it. But when we couldn't get something apart on something, he always complained that that is what it was. The old dead boss used Teflon Tape exclusively from about 1968, the first time we had to use it son some steam lines in a power plant. So have I. I've fixed more pipe dope leaks with tape and paste. Water, heat, gas, oil. It didn't matter. It didn't leak and it never galled fittings. But that third cut will give you a gift. And I never found that scratching the old threads was a problem with pipe tape. They just never leaked when properly applied. Blue Monster RULES.

And it's a given to run a proper pipe tap inside the threads to clean them out.

jumper

some don't recommend but

what's the harm in trying to just connect with some of those miracle goops on sale these days?

Paul48

Sure

But I wouldn't go on vacation with the Miracle Goop sealing anything...just sayin