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Did another small steam job
Dave0176
Member Posts: 1,178
Removed that old Repco boiler and replaced it with a Williamson GSA 075, really like these boilers and the price is great, plus it's a Weil McLain in cammo.
So I removed the bullhead tee and split the mains, removed the bullhead tee on the returns and split them too, built a 2 1/2" drop header with two 2" risers into a 2" equalizer, the return was 1 1/2" so I kept it that way all the way to the wet return manifold, also added return vents.
Unfortunately this system was installed all wrong, the mains aren't dripped right, on one side the main is dripped into tee into the return about three feet before the last runout, the other main is dripped at the end, but into a tee. Amazing no one thought about using elbows to drip the mains.
Boilers in, went back today system is absolutely filthy. I skimmed for a few hours, then did a high pressure blow down, that seemed to clean it up well, but will need to be done again I'm sure. There was zero pitch in the return before so water must of sat in the lines for years. These is still lots of stuff wrong with this system, I'm just hoping it will work. I told the owner we may very well have to repipe everything, and he understands.
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/AC80DD5F-8FB2-4213-A3DD-EFDB3BEA8A1F.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/AC80DD5F-8FB2-4213-A3DD-EFDB3BEA8A1F.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/B636F7E4-E835-4C0D-9C8A-0525ED6C7E47.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/B636F7E4-E835-4C0D-9C8A-0525ED6C7E47.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/0B8D4FF0-2259-4116-8481-F2FE91592FEB.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/0B8D4FF0-2259-4116-8481-F2FE91592FEB.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/1DFF587D-2D0E-4CBA-B3F3-A23EFEFAFFCE.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/1DFF587D-2D0E-4CBA-B3F3-A23EFEFAFFCE.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/F6A5D7B6-43E6-4C50-BA11-3B8B661EBD73.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/F6A5D7B6-43E6-4C50-BA11-3B8B661EBD73.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/8FE5D6C4-824E-429A-950D-482E7AFA7105.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/8FE5D6C4-824E-429A-950D-482E7AFA7105.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
So I removed the bullhead tee and split the mains, removed the bullhead tee on the returns and split them too, built a 2 1/2" drop header with two 2" risers into a 2" equalizer, the return was 1 1/2" so I kept it that way all the way to the wet return manifold, also added return vents.
Unfortunately this system was installed all wrong, the mains aren't dripped right, on one side the main is dripped into tee into the return about three feet before the last runout, the other main is dripped at the end, but into a tee. Amazing no one thought about using elbows to drip the mains.
Boilers in, went back today system is absolutely filthy. I skimmed for a few hours, then did a high pressure blow down, that seemed to clean it up well, but will need to be done again I'm sure. There was zero pitch in the return before so water must of sat in the lines for years. These is still lots of stuff wrong with this system, I'm just hoping it will work. I told the owner we may very well have to repipe everything, and he understands.
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/AC80DD5F-8FB2-4213-A3DD-EFDB3BEA8A1F.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/AC80DD5F-8FB2-4213-A3DD-EFDB3BEA8A1F.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/B636F7E4-E835-4C0D-9C8A-0525ED6C7E47.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/B636F7E4-E835-4C0D-9C8A-0525ED6C7E47.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/0B8D4FF0-2259-4116-8481-F2FE91592FEB.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/0B8D4FF0-2259-4116-8481-F2FE91592FEB.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/1DFF587D-2D0E-4CBA-B3F3-A23EFEFAFFCE.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/1DFF587D-2D0E-4CBA-B3F3-A23EFEFAFFCE.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/F6A5D7B6-43E6-4C50-BA11-3B8B661EBD73.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/F6A5D7B6-43E6-4C50-BA11-3B8B661EBD73.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dave76/media/8FE5D6C4-824E-429A-950D-482E7AFA7105.jpg.html"><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/dave76/8FE5D6C4-824E-429A-950D-482E7AFA7105.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="" /></a>
DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
0
Comments
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Williamson has the worst support ever
Good boiler but bad customer support.
I have one these units with a cracked base. They told me to uninstall the unit and take back to supplier for review. Idiots run that company.0 -
supply house
Its funny how many people down my pipe work, countless plumbers tell me im crazy for the "useless" pipe work, they all tell me I'm wasting time and money. Hell even the supply house salesman asks why am I running two risers on such a small boiler, I just quote Dan, if there were 30 risers I'd use them.DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......0 -
Plumbers may down the work
By steam men will give you three thumbs up0 -
Thanx
Thanks ALIGA.....DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......0 -
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two 2"
Are those 2" risers?
Technically for a perfect install you should have two 3" risers as that is what the tappings are.
I used two 2" on my EG-45 so I'm not insulting your work. Just making a point that you're right and everyone else is wrong. Probably the best thing to do is answer back "ok" and just proceed as normal because you'll never win the argument.Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment0 -
Three Thumbs
Looks great to me too!Dave in Quad Cities, America
Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
http://grandviewdavenport.com0 -
thats a true
That's a true steam pro job!.. good boiler (made by Weil McLain) done right! Dbl 2" risers is more than enough on this boiler..0 -
thats a true
That's a true steam pro job!.. good boiler (made by Weil McLain) done right! Dbl 2" risers is more than enough on this boiler..0 -
this is nothing
Dave, if you think plumbers mess up in a house you should see what they can do to a larger steam heated building.0 -
plumbers
What and why all the fuss over plumbers…..This is not the first time i have seen this type of post….I fail to see the point…..No comment on the install0 -
While we're at it...
You could have installed king valves and put a full-port valve on the return for doing blow-downs. You could also have put a full-port valve on the Hartford loop to allow flushing the return without draining the boiler...
If those guys think you're overdoing things they need to come and see some of the pictures on this site to put things in perspective.
Those guys are basically slackers, and slackers are always critical of people with higher standards. The fact is you're raising the bar, and that makes slackers uncomfortable. Keep up the good work!Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-240 -
Around Here
The only few good steam installers I know are licensed Plumbers, sure some Plumbers will do a bad install, without the proper knowledge, no reason to paint us all with the same brush.
Thanks, Bob GagnonTo learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.0 -
Should Your Main Steam Vents
Be placed where they are, on the tee where it goes to vertical? Or should it be placed on the horizontal pipe, back up the pipe from where they are?
Thanks, Bob GagnonTo learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.0 -
Plumbers
Am by no mean ripping all plumbers. Just using the term in general and from some of the licensed plumbers whom I happen to be friends with, I'm stating their opinions. As I said earlier, even the supply house salesman was asking why the reason for two steam risers from such a small boiler.
Hap Hazzard, if I can get the home owner to spend for the extra valving I'd install em in a minute.
Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating
I had to put them there out of convenience, or I'd breaking more of his mains, there were no vents at all before.DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......0 -
apology to plumbers
I also didn't mean to rag on plumbers. We all don't know what we don't know. And customer wants action right away and cheap. My point was that larger buildings started with intricate steam heat systems that over the years end up so "simplified" that it's surprising that system works at all.0 -
Thanks
Was not quite sure what and who you were referring to when speaking about plumbers and steam…Sure ,if you have been out here long enough its amazing what you see…Not even all the dead men knew what they were doing….There are a lot of Plumbers that advertise on this site some in the strictly steam section,and its frustrating to see negative comments, such as yours…As Dan says BE NICE…...0 -
Apology Accepted
Jumper, have a Merry Christmas.
Thanks, Bob GagnonTo learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.0 -
Exit velocity is key
whether you keep the velocity down with one larger riser or two smaller ones, the result is the same- dry steam.
The fact that these boilers have 3-inch tappings is great, but how many times have we seen them reduced to the point of the ridiculous? I've seen these boilers, in all sizes, piped with single 2-inch risers (and in one case 1-1/2"), and the owners were told the banging and high fuel bills were normal. We proved them wrong, as I know many of you have. Same goes for those Dunkirks with their 2-1/2" side tappings.
Dave0176, you could have gone either way on a smaller boiler like this, but this 2-riser job shows your level of piping skill. Nice!All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Manf. Specs
At the very minimum you should follow the manf. specs. Most manufactures give you minimum sizes, and dimensions,thats great…Thats how they want it piped for there product to operate correctly…From there as in installer it is your/our job to make any modifications necessary to make the system operate as efficiently as possible while supplying comfort…In my opinion, that is were the many years of experience and training come into play…..Some manufactures take a beating, many times its not the boiler,its the installer….I know i have been there myself…..There is nothing like a beautiful cast iron steam boiler piped correctly….and a HAPPY CUSTOMER0
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