System Layout

WoNHUSA

Installing a new heating system and going to be doing much of the work. I will be installing a high efficiency propane boiler with 3 zones and will eventually add a 4th for DHW. Zone 1 will be the finished basement, Zone 2 will be the main floor and the Zone 3 will be the second floor. I have used the Slant Fin app and determined the heat loss to be around 90,000 BTU.



Is there a good resource for me as I lay the system out. My father-in-law has made some suggestions, but I do not want to put things in the system that could hurt the boilers efficiency. I also don't want to spend money on things I do not need in the system, like venture tees or mechanical thermostats at the radiator, to name a couple. Thanks for the help.

Unknown

you want

You want a good system and won't spend the money getting it... good luck

WoNHUSA

Looking for advice

I am looking for advice so when I spend my money it is on the best parts and layout to make the system as efficient and reliable as possible. Post useful advice if you are able to.

Jean-David Beyer

I am looking for advice so when I spend my money it is on the best parts and layout to make the system as efficient and reliable as possible.

You might consider spending your first few dollars getting and studying this book. It will give you the understanding you will need to better design your system.



http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Hot-Water-Heating-Books/26/96/Modern-Hydronic-Heating-Third-Edition-br-by-John-Siegenthaler

WoNHUSA

Book

Thanks for the suggestion. I have never seen the book before, does it give design layout suggestions? My father-in-law has done a couple of boiler system and piping installations in the past, but there were years ago. I am wondering if the approach should be different for today's high efficiency systems.

Zman

Design

It sounds like you are doing a ground up design?

The key too maximizing the efficiency of today's Mod/cons is to size them correctly and design for the lowest return water temps you can.

I would start with the water temp you want on your design day and go from there.

You would then select radiators for each of our rooms that will match your heat loss for that space at the design water temp. Somewhere around  a 130 degree supply temp would be a good starting point.

Your boiler piping may look a bit different than your father in law is used to. Boilers used to be piped to prevent condensation, now we encourage it.

You can generally go by the installation instructions from the boiler manufacture.



Carl



Every time I see a post like the second one in this thread, I appreciate the fact that I don't live in a place where people talk to each other like that. I'm sure in his mind he is being helpful....

Jean-David Beyer

does it give design layout suggestions?

It gives some layout of radiant in-floor systems as examples of the points he is making. But since no two homes are alike, they are not really suggestions. He gives the principles that you would need to apply to any particular installation.

kcopp

what are you using....

for a boiler. I am a hour or so south of you are could give you some direction if you need...kcopp

WoNHUSA

Boiler

I am leaning toward the Lochinvar Knight wall hung unit with 125k output. This is actually more BTU's than I need right now. But, when I calculated the heat loss, I included spaces that will be added on in the future and did not add anything for DHW. I will not be adding the indirect tank at this time. I currently have a hot air furnace and actually heat mostly with wood, but I want a whole house system that is more efficient.

Weezbo

DHW usage

is often what we roll with and meeting that demand with oil fired boilers .

with gas , you have about the same thing happening , if you use domestic priority , you do not usually need to do any add on of BTUs , and as a nice feature your domestic water maker can act a bit like a buffer tank or a higher water content boiler ...

i hope that helps your considerations ...

an older place i worked on this summer had a monoflow with 4 section with a water heater and circ system for domestic hot water ,

i convinved the owner to pony up the extra $ for an insulated rim and box beams with spray foam insulation and installed a smaller boiler ...savings where you pay for something once , its YOURS and the cost does not change on a whim at any given moment as in the heating oil industry is not a bad deal.

so , if you can see the daylight or siding or open rim and box beams seriously consider spending the money you may have wasted buying a bigger boiler there ..it does two things Reduces your day to day cost of ownership and allows you to change your approximation of Heat loss ..

Gordy

RJB

What's the deal?



I don't recall reading he did not want to spend the money on a good system. He simply wants to design the cheapest most efficient system possible.



Everyone has a budget.

jumper

circs vs valves

I'd price of controlled circulators versus zone valves. And then I'd do some heavy thinking arguing with myself. I think that modern boilers are best with constant flow so ideally one controls the airside capacity of each terminal. I don't understand why people on this site are such fans of using heating boiler for DHW.

Gordy

Boiler for DHW

Jumper with the right boiler efficiency is the gain. With a modcon, and even ci boilers you are making DHW at a higher efficiency than say a tank style, and even instantaneous WH.