Inspections needed on condensing boilers!

tim smith

See attached pic, I had brought this up to a couple of the mfrs that I was concerned about this happening. Found this one today while looking over some other work customer wanted done. Smelled gas in boiler room, go figure. Ps, this is a 285 wall mount, union was tight on trap also. They need to have retainer pin or cable to keep this from happening.

JStar

Drain

Ugh! This is the only part of the TT boilers that really bothers me. I'm so paranoid about this happening to me.

heatpro02920

I never

use that flexi line, I always hard pipe them, and secure the hard line, you will never have a problem... Im curious to see if that was installed correctly, the washers and seals in the correct order?



I would like to see just a standar 3/4' pvc connection on the bottom of the unit or just a simple threaded bung.. Im not a huge fan of this design, but I'm sure it can be installed and made safe, in this case a simple zip tie or poly hanger would have stopped this malfunction...

tim smith

RE: washers seals

All in place in correct order. I have brought up to the major mfrs of this design boiler the idea of a built in retainer cable or pin to hold trap in place.  ? how do you trap it if you hard pipe it?

Mark Eatherton

Been there, seen that...

I think it has to do with the heat up cool down cycle. Have you ever seen nails that backed themselves out of a wooden post? It's not pressure from within that causes it. It is continual daily expansion and contraction that causes it. I suspect the same thing on these traps. Other than total solid vertical support, I don't think it is stoppable with current technology.



If the boiler had been serviced on an annual basis, it MIGHT have been caught prior to release. What most probably kept this from turning into a deadly situation is the fact that it was a sealed combustion appliance, pulling fresh air in from outside, and not regurgitating the byproducts of combustion which would have caused a significant increase in CO, and possibly death or devastating illness.



Good catch Tim.



ME

tim smith

Mark, re annual inspect

This is just over 2 yrs old and service annually by us, trap taken off and cleaned and tightened back on. Needs retainer!!!!  I am going to make some for the 60 or so we have out there that we service annually. I agree that the heat and cool down expansion probably caused this. This boiler runs it's you know what off, does pool and heating.

heatpro02920

You can use their trap

just connect is with PVC and fasten the PVC to something stable, if the pvc doesnt move the trap can not move, I have not ONCE used that soft flexi crap they give you with the boiler, I seen that and laughed, that goes in the trash with the cardboard....



I recently grabbed some PP venting materials and I sent out letters to all the customers that I have installed TT's for in the last 3 months, I am offering to change their PVC to PP for cost of materials no labor charges, so far 2 have taken me up on the offer and a few have called to ask what it was about and haven't gotten back to me yet....

Paul Pollets

Drain?

Is that a san tee in background (with C/O plug) for condensate or relief drains? San tees aren't to be installed lying horizontally. Only combination wyes or Y's and 1/8 bends. Tee is also facing wrong direction without trap arm or primer...

Steamhead

Good catch

but we'll probably see a lot more of these, especially in areas where the gas company has proclaimed for decades or generations that gas equipment doesn't need regular service!

Zman

The boilers...

The boilers at the Triangle Tube Training facility in Denver have 3/4" pex instead of the flexy crap. You have to expand the tubing a bit to get it on the trap. If you strap the pex securely to the wall or some strut it stabilizes it pretty well. Kind of ironic that they don't even use the stuff they pack with the boiler.

I have no idea about the SAN TEE on it's back (pointed the wrong way). Where is the trap? I think this install has other problems as well.

Good post Tim

Carl

SWEI

3/4" PEX

Does fit -- cold expansion works nicely.

tim smith

Paul, response to question

That is just our neutralizer assembly we fill with stone. There is a drain off the end of cap of that to a sanitary drain!   That tee is not part of any sanitary drain system. We put like 2# of dolomite limestone in the fitting we make. Works great. The plug on end is to clean it out. It is about 14" long, cap on one end cleanout plug on other. We drill and tap the cap end and thread in 3/4 pvc adapter then run to drain. There are 2 firetube boilers going into this assembly

Ironman

Delayed Ignition?

Mark's explanation seems like the most likely, but I have to wonder if delayed ignition may be involved .

Charlie from wmass

a couple van/ bell hangers

support the flex pipe and the trap stays in place. I drill the wall and insert an anchor then use a couple 3/4" van hangers to hold the flex pipe. Even just a strap hanger would work to the wall.