The white Stuff

superdave

Hi All, After the storm of 2013 and the loss of power. My phone has been out of control for frozen pipes and no heat calls. Before people even had power back they want us to come out and look at there heat.

Now that the power came back on the gas PSI dropped off big time. Most of the time the gas reads 7wc - 10wc depending on the location. Does anyone know of a boiler that can go from about 8wc down to under 3wc without locking out on safety

Some boilers I couldn't even get to lite that mean the gas was 2.5wc or less. 

The gas company does not seam to care about updating the system when it gets really cold out. This has been going on all winter when it gets cold out they lose PSI and they say its due to old piping they can not put any more PSI through it, but I said to them what about the days that have 7wc -10wc. What are your thoughts.

pipeking

how about

a gas buffer tank!!

SWEI

low line pressure

can be caused by demand increases nearer the source.  About two years ago, a coal-fired power plant in TX (in an area where historically they don't see icing conditions) had its turbine inlets ice up.  The utility fired up a couple of NG peaking plants typically used to meet summer heat demands which sucked down line pressures across the region.  Customers located ~300 feet or more above downtown lost their service.

superdave

added cost

Most of the boiler rooms are the size of coat closet.

Also how much are they I have never seen or priced out. I did price out gas booster for a job on Beacon Hill Boston Ma. and that came in about $28,000.00 for that unit. If I have to figure more equipment I will lose more job. I still want to use the boiler I have been for 10years. I just don't think the gas company can keep up with the technology of the new MOD CON. boilers.

superdave

Gas compay

What has me up set is the tec. from the gas company said right to him that you can't use Baxi boilers or Rinna water heater in the city. I do not believe the gas company should say what brand name can or can't be used. Also if this is the fact then Why is it on there rebate list that can be installed.

Jim Godbout

Vitodens

Only gas boiler I know that can do this but not recommended on regular basis is Viessmann Vitodens 200

We have seen it operate in many neighborhoods where other equipment would not during exactly what you are talking about



Utility infrastructure is big problem in northeast

Jamie Hall

Good heavens...

Do I actually seem to see here something positive about using oil instead of natural gas???  Granted the oil company ran me out the other day -- but when I got some oil back in the tank it took about five minutes to reprime the system and off I went.



And I have a choice of about half a dozen oil companies to do business with...

superdave

Gas PSI

Yes I heard about that. I know that Baxi does the same thing with the HTs models. But when the PSI goes below 3.5wc it still looks out. I heard the new model that are coming out this year has a self adjusting gas valve but still will look out at 3.5wc. As is now when you swing almost 3X in PSI  it makes it tough to stay eff and run clean.



I still think the gas company needs to step up and up date the equipment with the times if people are going to keep on converting to gas high eff. 

Tim McElwain

As an old gasman

from way back - so what is new? We have been having gas pressure problems when demand exceeds supply for years, extreme cold brings it on. All the old stuff would fire at 2" pressure without any problem. It would get a little worse when they mixed propane with natural gas then it was real fun. The Midco E-20 conversion burner would for instance operate at 2" W.C. and at least give some heat. That is not the case with negative pressure gas valves.



The utilities here in the North East are under a mandate to upgrade their old cast iron low pressure systems five miles or so per year. They are doing a pretty good job but it takes time. The popularity of gas has placed a high demand on the product street by street and the mains and services many times are undersized.



We would often with the new stuff tell contractors that equipment that needed a minimum pressure of 6" W.C. could not be installed in the inner city because it would not work all the time. This is the price we pay when we go to Mod/Con high efficiency equipment. It sort of works this way the fuel supply is inadequate many times and the system side of the install may not have had the special attention it needs. The combination of the two is a disaster.



I commissioned a commercial job recently (1,800,000 BTU's) and the utility would only guarantee 5" W.C.at the outlet of the rotary meter. We had to run a 3" pipe line to this unit in order to have some volume for safe firing. It is the price we pay.



I would tell folks looking to avoid this problem check to see if the utility can give you a 2 pound or five pound line into the facility. Then you can control the pressure with a Maxitrol pounds to inches regulator at the appliance.

SWEI

two pound line

NM Gas refuses do these any more.  Too confusing for their techs.



More 4" pipe in our future.

superdave

Need to change

So what happens when you need to work in a town or City that want to use the stretch code and use all HT heating and cooling?????



I know that the street pipe lines are old but 8 month out of the year you are getting 7wc -  10wc and when it is most needed the plants can't keep up and we are the ones that are getting Sh!t on. When you are getting under 3wc at static to the best of my nonage the only thing will run is an old Bunsen burner.



Its funny did gas net work just run a Early bird special on replacing 30 year old heating to HT 90% + if they are going to push that they need to be able to hold up there end.  Thanks