Lochinvar Knight boiler problems

icesailor

Venting:

The gray pipe is the exhaust, It must go into the chimney. How they connected it all together and ran it up the flue is a project.

The white pipe is the intake. It looks like it gors through the foundation wall. Where does it go from there? Does it go through a foundation wall above grade? Hopefully, it doesn't just dead end in a crawl space.

Paul48

cricka

Do you get ample supply of hot water from that indirect? Maybe it's just me, but I'm having some problems figuring out the plumbing to it.On further review.....I can't figure any of the piping out. It looks like it was done by a rank amateur....a drunken rank amateur.When done properly, it's beautifully simple.

icesailor

Piping:

Ditto here. That's an unusual piping way to connect an indirect.

cricka

Hot water

We usually get enough hot water for our uses, but then we don't use much - short showers, don't usually run water in more than one place at a time, etc. The one time  I remember when at least 2 showers and the dishwasher were running at the same time, hot water did become a small problem. But it's a huge problem when water is stone cold because of the "output temp diff" lockout of the boiler - see my post from Mar 11, "More problems".

Zman

What kind of response?

What kind of response are you getting from the Installation contractor?

I don't think this setup will ever work correctly.

The Boiler should likely be a 165K

The Fresh air is absolutely wrong

The piping is incorrect

The heating pump is ridiculously oversized (it is pumping 60+ gpm when you need about 10 to 15 gpm)

The crazy thing is they spent about 10k extra just in parts oversizing your system.

I think I would start looking at the consumer protection laws in your area. I wonder if Lochinvar would be willing to verify that this system is incorrectly installed in order to give you some leverage.

RobG

Cricka

Where are you located? It seems your at the point that you need an independent, qualified heating contractor to come out and evaluate the install. If we know where you are located, the good folks here can certainly recommend someone. I'm sorry you are having to go through all this, It's a disgrace to our profession that things like this happen. However you proceed, you are going to need ammunition from an expert.

Rob

cricka

Thank you

Rob,

Thanks for your help and concern. We're located in Philadephia.



We are beginning to feel overwhelmed; we  want to go back to the original contractor (and since the foreman on the job is gone, perhaps they now have somebody who knows what they're doing) to fix what they bungled, but of course we need to have somebody independent come and look at the system and tell us what is wrong and how it can be fixed.



A friend knows somebody who will do a heat loss analysis for us - we measured all the rooms and the windows and gave it to him. We're waiting to see what that tells us.

Ironman

STEVEusaPA

Cricka,



Look up the above user name from other posts on this site and contact him. I think Steve is about an hour or less from you.



He's got a current reply posted on the "Radiant Heat" section.

Ironman

Some More Observations

1. The vent cap may be a concentric with the air intake going in under the part that looks like a storm collar. I'm not familiar with that make so that's a guess from looking at its appearance. I can't see an other purpose though for the collar having a gap between itself and the cone.



2. This brings up another issue: if the middle flue is active, the the exhaust from it would be drawn into the intake of the boiler through the concentric vent. If that's what it is.



3. it also brings up another issue: if the center flue is active, the heat of the exhaust gases could melt the concentric since it's plastic due to its close proximity.



4. I do not see the problems with the indirect piping that others here are stating. It may be there, but I cannot detect it from the pics. It looks to be according to Lochinvar's diagrams. Again, I may not be seeing everything.



5. Also again, the versaflow circ is definitely over-sized, but you'll need the heat loss for each zone to determine what size is needed.



6. Your current piping will be over-sized if your heat loss comes in with a substantially lower number (and it will) than what your boiler is. Don't panic. This is not a problem and the piping doesn't need to be replaced. It can actually be a benefit as it gives some buffer to the boiler which helps to prevent short cycling and puts less resistance against the circs. The only downside is that you don't want to get below 2 ft. per second velocity on a downward return as that might hinder air removal. If there are manual air bleeders on your rads, then it's probably not an issue.



Hang in there and be persistent and things will eventually get worked out. Stick to your guns about the heat loss and sizing - it will be worth the rewards in the end. An over-sized boiler is less efficient, costs more to maintain and operate, and will have a shortened life expectancy. Proper sizing will save you thousands over the lifespan of the boiler.



Please, keep us posted.