black pipe vs copper

LDU

Hello everyone,

im doing some renovation work and it has crossed my mind to replace the existing black pipe to copper lines to <span style="text-decoration:underline;"><span>eventually</span></span> replace my system to hot water.

I currenlty have (all black pipe) 2" headers with 1" raisers going to the radiators, i have eliminated 3 radiators in each floor which were never used. It has crossed my mind to run (all copper) 1.5" headers and 1" risers going to 3 radiators on each floor. I will also run my return lines and leave them available for next year hopefully convert the system to hot water

is it a good idea to replace the black pipe for copper?



thank you for your help...

nicholas bonham-carter

steam to hot water conversion problems

before you start with the conversion, consider these points:

1. when converted, your system pressure will be 10-15 times greater and may leak.

2.your radiators may only work with steam, and  because of their design will not work with hot water.

3.the heat radiation capacity of steam radiators is less than those used for hot water, and some areas may be cold as a result.

factor in the possibility of running all new pipes and radiators in your system, and you will see that it makes sense to just keep the steam as well as it should, if possible.--nbc

Jamie Hall

Not if you can help it

Copper expands a lot more than black iron with temperature change.  Also, copper joints have no built in flex, but are (even when done well) astonishingly weak in torsion (twist).  This gives rise to two problems when copper is used for steam lines: the expansion can cause all kinds of strange and wonderful noises which can be difficult or impossible to get rid of, and unless the piping is specially designed so that no joint anywhere is subect to twisting as the pipes expands, there is every likelihood that the joints will leak.



Copper is commonly used for hot water -- but keep in mind that the hottest hot water systems are quite a bit cooler than steam.  Copper can be used for steam system wet returns, and often is.



On the other hand, black iron can be used quite happily for hot water.



That said, don't switch.  There are other problems associated with the switch than just pipe material, and there isn't anything you can do with hot water that you can't do just as well with steam, if not better.

LDU

thanks!!!

Thank you for your replay...

My intention was to make provisions to eventually change the boiler and also replace the radiator for hot water base-board. I have a two family so I was making provisions to separate the heating for each apartment. my concern was the use of copper instead instead of black pipe since it is much easier to install... "my plan" i guess was to run copper lines for the current steam system, run copper return lines and have them ready for the time when i swap from steam to hot water and the baseboard is installed.. I’m just concerned the copper will not withstand the steam system..

 

LDU

thank you very much..

great.. i appreciate it..

do you think I can downsize my 2" headers to 1.5" or something smaller without choking my boiler? i originally had 7 radiators on each floor and 3 were never in service because the other ones heated the house just fine, I'm afraid that 2" header would be too large for the hot water system.. I would like to find a happy medium for the current supply header.. what are your thoughts?

Tim McElwain

If you do

reduce the header size you will have even more noise. If you decide to go with Forced Hot Water (really too bad) then all new piping should be done then. Mix and match never works and only buys you problems.



NO COPPER ON STEAM UGH !