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A tale of two tapes...

Attached find two sets of combustion analysis and a drawing of what we saw when we got there, and what we did to correct the spillage that was occurring in the mechanical room. The whole system is slated for a complete replacement and rebuild including getting rid of the gas fired tank water heater, the three ancient Hydrotherm boilers, with modcons and reverse indirects, so they wanted to do the minimum necessary to get by. We had spillage from the DHW heaters relief vent, and placed barometrics on each boiler and water heater to eliminate the spillage. It works satisfactorily now.



It required a meeting with the city officials before they would allow the installation. That won't be necessary in the future. In fact, the inspector wanted to know why they even pulled a permit, and said he's have just done it and moved on....



Comments?



ME
It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.

Comments

  • rlaggrenrlaggren Posts: 159Member
    Permits look a no brainer

    Can't see any responsible way to leave "unusual" changes that almost certainly conflict with the installation instructions w/out some kind of approval. Regardless of test results. The inspector isn't standing at the bottom of the liability chute all by himself - like you are.



    Your scans of the analysis scripts are only partially readable on my machine. Might scan better if you ampped up the contrast when you scanned it, maybe scan real light stuff like that as "line art".



    Rufus
    disclaimer - I'm a plumber, not a heating pro.
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 5,844Member
    Yeah.. bad scans...

    I will repost tomorrow in a spread sheet form and save everyones eyes.



    Sorry,



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 5,844Member
    Yeah.. bad scans...

    I will repost tomorrow in a spread sheet form and save everyones eyes.



    Sorry,



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Posts: 4,227Member
    Mark I can't read the results but

    I am having trouble with my eyes from the "shingles" they say my sight will come back but right now everything is sort of blur.



    I have found by the way that large installs often work much better when draft hoods are eliminated and barometrics installed. This compared to small residentail changes which some times are hard to do as the draft hoods are built into the appliances. This is especially true on some forced warm air applications.



    I find it interesting that you have the officials on your side with the changes. I do however find myself that if I involve them ahead of time they are more receptive.



    I look forward to seeing a little clearer picture of your results.
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 5,844Member
    edited December 2010
    Per the drawings... (Water heater)

    Pre



    o2 =7.9

    co = 19 ppm

    co2 = 7.3

    t stack = 287 deg f

    t room = 89.5

    exair = 54.1%

    afco = 30

    Draft = 0" W.C.



    Water heater had to be forced to fire (raised aquastat)



    Post



    O2 = 7.5

    co = 28 ppm

    co2 = 7.6 pct

    stack t = 279 deg f

    amb t = 74 "

    ex air = 49.8

    afco = 44 ppm

    Draft = -.04 " WC



    Water heater was under a real time load. Hood spillage at DHW tank was completely eliminated.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 5,844Member
    edited December 2010
    Boiler 1

    Pre

    O2 = 8.8

    co = 12 ppm

    co2 = 6.8

    stack t = 442

    amb t = 83.6

    ex air = 39.2

    afco = 73



    Post

    O2 = 11.5

    co = 26

    co2 = 5.3

    Stack t 497

    amb t = 75

    ex air = 109

    afco = 58



    We did not pull the burners nor brush the tubes. Just applied the barometric dampers to control the spillage. System is slated for replacement soon.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 5,844Member
    Boiler 2

    PRe

    02 = 6.4

    co = 51

    co2 = 8.2

    stack t = 466

    amb t = 85.4

    ex air = 39

    afco = 73



    Post

    o2 = 11.7

    co = 31

    co2 = 5.2

    stack t = 504

    amb t = 76

    ex air = 113

    afco = 70
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 5,844Member
    boiler 3

    Pre

    o2 - 7.2

    co = 78

    co2 7.7 stack t = 457

    amb t = 87

    ex air - 47

    afco = 118



    Post



    o2 = 13.2

    co = 33

    co2 = 4.3

    stack t = 519

    amb t = 77

    ex air = 153

    afco = 80



    Again, nothing other than applying barometric dampers. In the off chance that this property doesn't get awarded a grant, I would clean the passage ways and the burners, install chokes in the flue of the boilers, thereby bringing the o2 down and co2 up (flame efficiency) and throw some tekmar at it.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Posts: 5,844Member
    Sorry Tim...

    Gotta take care of those eyes. Sorry you had to cancel your classes as well. If I were in your neighborhood, I'd have come and substituted for you. Although there is no substitute for you :-)



    Get well soon my friend.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
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