37 zones of radiant heat...(JohnNY)

Evil lution

Checked the Taco Installation PDF files. It does not say it is ok to mount any of their pumps at a 45 degree. I would think if you could do that Taco would have put it in there installation instructions.
Just a thought.

Page 5
http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/102-359.pdf

Page 1
http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/102-232.pdf

Page 1
http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/102-226.pdf

Page 2
http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/102-147.pdf

What I do know is that calling the manufacture with questions that sometimes their word is not gospel. Sometimes they aren't sure but they won't tell you that. They will guess.
And what do they care. 3 years from now if the pump burns out because of the way it was mounted do you think you're going to remember the persons name or do your think the sales rep is going to say, " OOps! I did tell you that here let me replace all those pump for free." HELL NO!!!

Scary

JohnNY

Hard to make room.

But somebody's got to do it.

Might as well be this guy who actually reads installation manuals:
(his name is Tommy, job foreman for Gateway Plumbing & Heating)

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Josh M.

Please tell me that's not a house!

JohnNY

That's a house.

Three people will live there...and none of them is Johnny White.

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tom_49

i think they just started it up......my lights just dimmed.

nice work.

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Paul Cooke_2

Pumps

At that angle, those Taco pumps look like they are ready to be launched into space. It looks very cool. Haven't seen that done before.

Was it done for any specific reason?

donald@donaldluckenbill.com

Can you say Wilo?

JohnNY

HaHa

I can say Wilo all day long but it won't make it appear. Wilo is not well distributed in my area unfortunately.

My installers felt the angle of the pumps bought them some room.

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jackchips_2

Very nice

work.

Please tell us it is not Bernie Maddof's retirement home?

Jack

Mark Custis

Nice

Makes me want to be a pipe fitter when I grow up.

Jack: ROFLMAO

Brad White_203

Up angle

very manly install if you catch my lift

Any potential issues with air binding? Certainly better than a down-angle which would collect particulates at least.

It is amazing what a little up angle can do to make the space look clear.

Really nice job.. How many different temperatures? Is it entirely circulator control at the zone level?

JohnNY

Hey, Brad.

We've got 3 water temperatures with three VSP mixing stations feeding 24 pumps supplying 37 zones at manifolds with a few zoning thermal actuators in the mix.
(deep breath)

This manifold shows no actuators but you'll get the idea.


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Kritz_3

T-Drill

Beauty of a job,I suggest a T-drill for the next one!

Steve

JohnNY

Whatever, dude.

I got paid a lot of money to do this job and I made several effective improvements to the engineer's original plans.
It is well installed.

Efficiency wasn't the goal here. Sometimes you just gotta take the money so you can pay 20 salaries instead of sending people home.

You really wanna lose your mind? This is a secondary system to the forced air that's primary to heating the house.


(is this post in the right place?)




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JohnNY

I'd love a T-drill.

But aren't those things like 6 grand?

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kpc_52

Over the top...

3 people? Good for you getting the job but that is crazy....how many sq. feet?

Brad White_203

...that lived in the house that Jack built...

Deep breath indeed!

Looks like a factory warehouse building of sorts. Garment district? Nice that they sprung for the radiant way.

I like the tags you use, good marketing and identification.

Mark Custis

I get

take the money and pipe fitting.

Secondary to the forced air?

^^^ throws away his tin tools.

Unknown

JohnNY
What a beautiful job!!!! Love the color!!!
Johnny

Mad Dog_2

you a VERY sick man...Johnny NY

Thats FREAKIN AWESOME!!!!!! DYNOMITE. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

Johnny WHITE has GOTTA love THAT baby!!!!

Mad Dog

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Jack Smith

Sweet job!

One question on pump orientation, I know when mounted motor vertical up Taco requires 20 lbs. pressure, do they want the same at that angle?

Mad Dog_2

YOUR AN ANIMAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mad Dog

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Dan C.

How big is this house? It looks like 5 or 6" sewer line coming in. Did you do the plumbing also?

JohnNY

We thought of that, Jack.

And then we stopped thinking about it.

Our pressure is going to be up around 18psi anyway, but I'll put a call in to Taco to see what they say.

Good catch.

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JohnNY

Plumbing

Yes we did the plumbing and sprinkler piping, too, Dan C.

The house used to be a hospital, but is being renovated for a single family of 3.

For what it's worth, I'm told the building cost 18 million dollars and the renovation is costing 13 million.

The recession affects people in different ways I guess.

I've never met the owners and probably never will.

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JohnNY

Glad you like it, Johnny.

It's good to hear from you!

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Dan C.

Cool. Nice job. How many sq feet?

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JohnNY

Sq. Ft.

It's about (edit)6,000 sq.ft.
Very big by NYC standards.
The house includes a two-car elevator and a large interior courtyard.
I'll post some other pics when I can.

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Rick_89

What's your DeltaT and DeltaP

Those pumps seem perversely over sized. How did you size your pumps? This is a real serious question given it's a 4000 sq/ft house with 37 zones of radiant. That's 37 loops of 108 freaking feet in length. Think about that.

Some quick math:

25 pumps.

Avg. power draw = 130 watts per pump.

5000 hours run time per pump. (Typical winter)

25 x 130 = 3250 watts per hour.

5000 x 3250 = 16,250,000 watts

16,250,000/1000 = 16,250 Kw

$0.22 per Kw x 16,250 = $3575.00 in electricity JUST for those pumps.

Good thing they got efficient boilers eh?

Unbelievable.

JohnNY

I didn't size anything, Cy.

The pumps are from page M11 of the mechanicals.

And I don't have a deltaT yet because there's no water in the system.

Thanks for your help, though.

It's especially valuable to me considering you have no idea what the job conditions are.




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tim smith

John, I was just going to say what above said, Why so large

of pumps????? You could have done that job with a largish cartridge pump and vfd drive if you could not get a Wilo. "Sorry Mr. White" and then done zone valves. Just wunderin. Looks great although. Don't me to sound critical just inquizitive by nature. Tim

Derheatmeister

With Cy on this one!

Think "green" ,Think Wilo...

Also as you mentioned if Wilo is not avail in you area Grundfos has the Alpha!

Inpressive mech room layout but do not like the angle on the circs for many reasons i.e. "Burning out" Circs.

In Germany we call systems like this Pumpaholics!

Derheatmeister

johnny W.....I wonder why $$$$$????

JohnNY

I get it about the 22 pumps.

Point taken, guys, believe me.

It was supposed to be 37 pumps. I got it down to 22 and it was not a small fight to get it there.

Once again, not my idea, but I'll take the check.

What makes you think I'll be "Burning out" circs?



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singh

Cool

Nice work, I know what you mean about doing what you can to keep
operating and payroll.

Q: Some of the larger pumps (0011)? Look like 3/4" piping?

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Rick_89

When the system is filled and running

Those oversized monsters are going to howl like a freight train and you will be called back to job becasue of excessive noise. AHHhh the gentle click of a energy efficient zone valve and the whisper quiet WILO ECO. You can almost not hear it from here. Once in a while you have to stand up and help with design. The way the pumps are installed, the number and size of the pumps is just gross. Shame on you and shame on Johnny White for patting you on the back. It's all about money

Tony_23

Typo ?

Maybe there's a typo ?

Is the building really only 4000 sq ft ? 4000 divided by 22 = 182. At 6" spacing that would be 44 loops at 182 ft each. I believe that's where the question of your circ sizing comes in.

That angle is the real issue. "Its in the book"

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Call backs....

If that's what the engineers want, that's what they'll get. If it all needs to be redone due to noise (which I suspect it will too, unles the supply runs are real small and real long), there's a bunch more work for our buddy.

Boilerpro

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Unknown

400 gpm

I can't imagine how anyone could have came up with a pumping requirement of that magnitude? If those circs are running in a mid range condition we would have to be in the 400 gpm range? Cavitation here we come.

Bob Bona_4

John

I know you "get it". Some of the guys don't understand how it is to be bound to mech spec in terms of bidding and actual execution. Like you said, you have fight for common sense sometimes, but diplomacy enters the mix too. You know there can be a better way, but there's a point where you say "the mech engineer got paid to write this stuff, the onus is on HIM if it's wrong".

You're blessed to have landed a job like this, and I know you guys will make the most of it!

Pretty mind boggling...that's 44 circulator gaskets, 88 circ bolts to tighten..nice job!