Ultra Fin Concerns

John Owens

I have been involved in at least 8 Ultra fin projects in the San Francisco bay area. I have not received complaints from customers. I have the product in my 2 year old 2100 sq foot house, and it is not very resposive. The total heat load is 39,000 Btu/hr at 30F which relates to 18.5 Btu/hr per square foot. I used kitec aluma pex 30" or less on center. Foil faced R19 on the lower floor with a 4' air gap. R13 glas with a 4" gap for the second floor. The ends of the joist bays are well done with R10 rigid insulation. I have an out going water temperature of 180F.
I was setting the temperature back to 64F at night, and found I had to kick it up at 4.30 am to achieve a 68F temperature by 7.00 to 7.30 am. On cold days (36) the system has not reached design temp in 3 hours. Am I missing something? or is this product not what it is made out to be?
Three wholesalers I have expressed my concerns to have assured me they have not had complaints. I was also not born last night, and don't take that for gosspel.
I'm two houses into a seven house sub division in san francisco, and have concerns from my own house experience.

john owens

lee_7

If this is a radiant floor setup, why such large spacing between pipes? Also, with radiant I don 't believe set back is a great idea as you have a very large mass to reheat. We always set it and forget it on radiant jobs. They are not for quick response in heat changes. They take a long time to reheat.

Just a thought
Lee

EJ hoffman

what is your return temp?

[Deleted User]

set back and radiant...

Don't work well together. Get rid of the set back.

We also run our tubing at a maximum of 16" OC with the fins every 24". Allows for a lower operating temperature, which equates to fuel savings.

ME

John Owens

Return temps vary. When it's cold out. I'm getting about a 14F drop. When the underfloor cavity is really warm the delta T can be a s close as 2F. There are only 11 circuits of tubing, Most are not much more than 110 feet. the circulator is an 007.

John Owens

I am experementing not using set back. It may be more cost effective to maintain the temperature rather than set it back and use a lot of energy to bring it up to temp. Thanks for the suggestion

Mark Custis

I agree

with 3lees on setback and Mark with more tubing.

Here in Cleveland we rarely use less the 9" OC. That is why the tubing makers like us.

Have yet to use the ultra-fin product.

Nailed

ulrta fins

I have a ultra fin system at my own home and have had simular issues with the system. West coast but north of you in Washington. I feel 30" centers is to much, we did the master with 24" centers and it works well. My water is set at 160 the air space is about 6" with 6" of fiberglass under. R-21 or so. The system does heat but I don't get carried away with the temp. I don't feel that it would ever reach 80 in the winter. If the spacing was closer you would have more fins, but then again if it was closer you wouldn't need to have fins. When the system was first installed it din't work, the contractor bled out the air pockets and turned up the temps before it would maintain 70. I am content with the system now but I wouldn't say happy.

kpc_45

turned up...

the water temps to what? I was pretty sure it was supposed to work w/ 180F only.

Jed_2

Spacing

Check this out, Lee.

www.ultra-fin.com/

lee_7

That system looks like a lot of drilling. I will take staple up plates anytime. They look much easier and faster to install. Pipes on 6-9" centers

Tombig_2

ultra fin

I've had it perform down to 140* water temp on OD reset but had to set design/180* at 28-32*. John, when you say 4" air gap is that total or 4" below the fins. If it's 4" overall you might not have enough air space above and below the fins for proper convection around the fins. U-F needs that to work properly. The poorest performance will be exactly where the insulators pushed the insulation up too far and touched the fins. I would opt for less R-value and more air space in shallow joist bays. Also depending on subfloor and floor covering material your setback times/temps need to be adjusted.

Tom G.

Rudnae

Spacing...

Gentlemen, I have noticed that some of you who have installed this product are using 4" and 6" air gaps between the pipe and the insulation/floor. In my design manual it only asks for 3" above and 3" below. Wouldn't increasing this space increase the lag time of the system? We have sold many systems up here in the frozen North, using the design manual and not had any issues. Also given the nature of the beast this system does not lend it self to overnight / daytime setback. Too much energy required to make it go. Just my $0.02.

McKern_2

ultra fin

have ultra fin installed for 4 years -35 f -37c in northern Canada no problem keeping rooms at 23c 73f wife likes it a little warm.I installed it with 3" above and below air space and 24 oc I do not use set back as radiant systems are too slow for heat recovery each room is controlled with a thermostat

mikegee

ULTRA FIN New construction in NY

i m building a new 6000 sq ft home in NY city. Planning to use Ultra Fin for the entire house. Had ultra fin do a heat loss calculation. They recommend approximately 3700 ft of tubing with 2200 pairs of plates.

Can anyone comment on the hating system, and suggest a Modulating or Condensing Boiler< Natural gas) should i consider adding some radiators in larger room to make sure I can have a trouble free heating system

Thank you

Zman

New post

Mike you would be better off posting this as it's own question in the radiant heat section.

Ultra fin is a bad idea with modulating boilers.

Carl

Gordy

Heat loss details

What SWT are designed for your system?



Why ultra fin?



There are other RF systems to choose from that offer more output at lower supply water temps.



Mod/con boilers are more efficient at lower supply / return temps to get their full benefit of capable efficiencies .

mikegee

Ultra fin Radiant heating

Ultra Fin was recomended by a  contractor. I can not find too many completed installations, or a contractor experienced with this system.

Can you suggest either? or can you suggest another method for in joist installation

Because of the layout , many rooms have minimal wall space available for radiators?

Thanks