How not to install a radiant

Brad White_74

I was going to ask

for an update, Steve. Good timing. There is hope! The treatment of this HO is unconscionable. The HO is fortunate to have you on his side.

Troy_3

Responsibility

Until the designer is held responsible along with the installer this crap will continue. I see unqualified installers getting wholesalers to design lousy systems meerly to sell stuff with no liability. Why do the designers go scott free? I bet if the wholesalers and reps had to pay up they would be a little more careful what they recommend and to whom they sell.

Jed_2

Hello, Supply House Rick

I don't believe Rick would EVER put a design like that on the street. But, Troy, you jump too soon. What was the wholesale designer given to design this system. The rep and designer say it was sound. Maybe they don't know what they're doing. Rick is right in that it is the INSTALLER's
burden of performance, PERIOD.

I say designers of radiant systems should all be Certified to a minimum compentency level, and builders should be held to a higher standard of how they select their subs.

Builders have way too much power in this.

Jed

S Ebels

Jed

From what I understand, the distributor drew up plans for the radiant system in the house from the blueprints. I have a hard time believing that they drew it with tube spaced 24" on centers through the whole house but..........who knows? The owner said he never saw a heating plan, just a price and that he wouldn't have known what he was looking at if he did see one. That must be painfully true for him now because he is the person that took the pics of the tubing layout in all its wretchedness without raising an alarm. I have to lay most of the burden for this one first, at the feet of the contractor because it is his responsibility in the end. Secondly, I have to fault the inspector because it's his job to oversee the contractors who don't own up to the task at hand.

As far as the distributor goes, I REALLY wonder how a Slant Fin boiler managed to be delivered to a job site spec'd with a Vitola. There are virtually no similarities and I don't see how the two could be confused. Then to replace the Slant Fin with a Vitola of the wrong input before finally sending a second one and getting it right.......... To many errors there, something is fishy and it ain't the fish in the lake by this house.

Troy_3

Responsibility

Jed: All designers are not created equal for sure. All wholesalers are NOT bad, That we agree! The good ones I'm sure wouldn't mind standing behind their designs.Why is it that the installer is the only sap left holding the bag? That is my point. I can't comment on this job. I have no 1st hand knowledge. I have seen way too many sick jobs where the installer just puts too much trust in the supplier. I think there should be some type of warning that says "installer beware we will get paid even if our design is flawed" We only sell equipment. It is your job to make it work!

Jed_2

Troy

Not to sidetrack Steve's thread(I don't like doing that), he's got a real can o' worms there.

Im in general agreement with you, Troy. The good suppliers WILL stand by their designs when it is shown to be a faulty design; and, NOT installer ignorance( I mean that installer doesn't have the concept understanding and hydronic skills. Hell, even I can sweat a joint). I have seen, and backed up the contractor on occasion, for a faulty detail or two which corrected the problem. I'm not in business to screw my Customers. I understand fully what they go through.

Yes, many installers put way too much trust in the supplier/designer. And they usually are the one's who don't provide enough information to comprehensively design a system. And they don't fully understand the system design concepts. Most do, but the moonlighters usually don't. If I provide a"concept drawing", I usually will put that "warning"(disclaimer) in a ballon at the bottom. I can't say I include it in EVERY dwg, but I will from now on. Of course, we HAVE to get paid for materials crossing the counter.

I went to a job today that would blow your mind. I wish I had the liberty to post some pics. Not quite as bad as Steve's situation, but I expect this job to land before the court, given what needs to be done to correct it. The Master OBT defiantly claimed the design was done by a wholesale designer(not me). I know that designer did not, in fact, do any design work. The correction will involve a complete re-pipe of the boiler, and the problems don't end there. It is a SOG home, with remote mnfld dist. tubing embedded, with NO insulation! Can't fix that. THAT'S THE INSTALLER'S IGNORANCE! Get my point?

I try to make judgement calls on the competency level of some of my customers, and respond accordingly. But they should be asking me. I'm not clairvoyant.

Jed

GH

Do radiant right

You would have a hard time not understanding the tube
location with this product.WWW.GCSRADIANTHEAT.COM

Supply House Rick

Hello Jed

Rick PE

Jed_2

Hi, Rick

Sounds a bit like what you said. I know.

Jed