Gravity Boiler Replacement
I have a gravity boiler to replace, but I'm weary of just putting a pump onto the current setup. Originally the system had a Kohler boiler in bad shape. This system only heats the first floor of the house, with electric baseboard in the attic/second floor. There are 2 main outlets from the boiler, one 3in and one 2in. The 3in branches off into 2 2in lines and the other 2in just loops around.
With such large diameter pipes I'm worried about getting even flow if I install a pump improperly. I've come up with a couple possible solutions.
The first idea is to make large 4inch "headers" at the beginning of the supply and end of the returns. This would allow the velocity of the water coming from the boiler to "settle" and then flow as originally designed without much velocity. This would of course depend on pump sizing too.
The second option I'm contemplating is connecting the return and the supply into a secondary loop and using wye fittings to inject the heated water into the line while using a primary circulator only.
And the final nuclear option is to remove the large lines and repipe directly to each individual loop(about 2in line), put a circulator on it and install valves to balance everything by hand. I'd appreciate input anyone might have for this situation.
Pipe on the right is the return.
Owner
Steamnowrockford.com
Comments
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Since this is hot water… and since you have easy access in the basement… you are going to be a whole lot happier down the road if you repipe the whole thing with individual supply and return lines for each radiator, feeding off and returning to a manifold, and pipe the boiler to the manifold with as primary/secondary. Put balancing valves on the individual radiator feeds. You'll need two pumps — one for the boiler and one for the radiators.
But you certainly don't need the individual lines to be 2 inch! Half inch or three quarter inch is going to be ample. Better yet, if you can keep the boiler temperature below 200 F (and you should) you can use oxygen barrier PEX…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
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I maintain a 2-story, 4-unit condo building built in 1924 with two gravity-conversion heating systems. One system heats one side of the building; the other heats the other side. Both systems have all original large diameter piping and radiators. Each system has one boiler and one circulator pump, supplying about 10 radiators. And I am amazed at how evenly the heat is distributed through all radiators, on two floors, from just one Taco 007 circulator, through the original large-diameter piping.
So if your system was piped correctly by the old-timers back in the day, and I would guess it was, you could be surprised at how well the distribution can work with the original piping. If it was my house, I'd be inclined to start with the minimum and just reduce each supply near the boiler down to a 1-1/4" copper manifold with one Taco 007 circ on the manifold and a balancing valve on each of the two supplies. This is basically your "Figure 1" with a 1-1/4" manifold. A Taco 007 will give you 15+ gpm in large diameter gravity conversion piping, and that should be plenty of flow for one floor of an average old house. (You didn't say what size boiler you'll be installing, so the 1-1/4" pipe size assumes you would have something similar to our WGO-5 boilers or smaller).
If this is a customer's house and not yours, I can understand not wanting to get a callback. But I don't see how you could go wrong with a Taco 007 on a 1-1/4" manifold (assuming a not-too-big boiler) with balancing valves feeding into the original large diameter pipes. That's going to be a lot less costly than ripping everything out and repiping, and if that building is like ours, it will work fine.
Also beware that because of the large water volume, you'll need to pipe a bypass into a new cast iron boiler.
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What size boiler are you thinking? Did you run a heat load calc?
I think most of the "smaller" CI boilers have flow minimums now,m you may need a circulator?
Asbestos on the old girl?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Yeah, primary - secondary is normally what I do for the hot water systems. But with the gravity stuff just don't want to screw it up. Preferably I would not have to repipe all the radiators but not sure I'm seeing a good way to do it without installing that. Will there be an issue with me just reusing the 2-in lines and having them come into a common header or do I need to go all the way to the radiator?
Owner
Steamnowrockford.com
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I'm thinking about 100,000 btu input. The heat load calc says something around 70 to 80 output so that should fit nicely. Oh yeah it's covered in asbestos. And I guess the residents cat clawed it up too. We have an abatement company coming in to remove it all.
Owner
Steamnowrockford.com
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technically the flow resistance of the gravity system is low enough that in most cases you can hook it directly to a mod con and keep the required flow in the mod con although it is better to do it primary secondary.
you have multiple options with a cast iron boiler but you need to do return water temp protection as part of that option. Primary secondary with a protection control of one sort or another on the boiler is probably the simplest to make work right. Some direct connected options can end up not getting enough flow in the system will holding off flow in the boiler to keep the return temp to the boiler up unless it is explicitly planned for the system possibly spending most of its time with the boiler return mostly bypassed one way or another.
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I would plan on coming back a couple times to make sure everything is balanced, it will require some tweaking no matter what you do to get everything even unless it is a homeowner that understands how to adjust it themselves.
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Have you considered the condition of the existing chimney?
Some jobs for me dictated a Mod Con for sidewall venting as the chimney was not safe.
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That is something that we're going to be checking and we will run a liner down it as necessary.
Owner
Steamnowrockford.com
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mod cons are a great match for gravity systems because most of them can run low temps most to all of the year and meet the heat loss of the building so they can be set up with an outdoor reset curve that just keeps the whole system warm nearly all the time.
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