Expected Life of 22 Year Old Viessmann Vitodens 200
We've had this equipment for DHW (Vitocell) and for part of our space heating needs via hydroair to 2 air handlers with coils. Several years ago our very old AC needed replacement so installed a pair of heat pumps going to those air handlers. The boiler has had yearly service and has been generally problem free. Now the boiler is throwing fault codes and my concern is this is the beginning of the end. I've read that 20 years is expected for this older equipment so you see the issue. Also, if replacement is needed does it make sense to stick with Viessmann given it's slightly reduced role now. The technician is coming today for the 2nd time in a week to look at the system.
Comments
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Wait and see what the tech says today. 20 years is a good run. I wouldn’t put thousands towards a repair. And just like most everything else, I don't know the future of Viessmann boilers. I never was a fan of mod cons in general. Too much to go wrong. If I were to install a gas boiler in my own home, it would be a System 2000 or a 3 pass cast iron with a power burner.
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whats the error code?
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It alternates between Fault 02 with the burner fault indicator on and Fault A4. Last week the tech replaced the external expansion tank and said there was air in the line and tried to do some bleeding. After reading here about Bosch boilers going away and hearing that Viessmann was acquired a while ago it's hard to know what brand would be safe. I know a new Viessmann isn't exactly a drop-in replacement for a 22 year old model as I'd assume the piping connections and dimensions don't match up.
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hm weird thing is the boilers that have those faults aren't quite 22 years old. the models I would expect at that age use different faults. I wouldn't worry too much about viessmann disappearing for a good while longer they still offer parts for their first wall mounted boilers. your 2 fault codes are for fixed high limit (f2) and no flame (f4) the F4 is what i tend to call the lack of maintenance error code, burner needs a whole service, full cleaning of the fire side of the heat exchanger, condensate flush, new electrodes probably, visual check everything. the F2 can be related but is usually due to air or flow issues like your contractor said.
You are right they will not 1 to 1 drop in but depending on what kind of vent pipe you have, and what if any viessmann accessories you have it might fit back in easiest. if you don't have a viessmann branded mixing valve you could replace with a 100 series save some bucks. honestly though if your tech is pretty good those 2 errors are mostly just service related not parts. that being said it's a good idea to look at a new boiler after 20+ years in my opinion.
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The service was scheduled a while ago to take place two weeks from now by the same contractor. I've noticed in past services that they spend a lot of time cleaning stuff. It surprised me how gunned these "clean" boilers get.
In terms of the fault codes I'm getting A4 (not F4) and 02. The original installer who has long since left the business gave me all the Viessmann documents from the install. I pulled out the Start-up/Service Instructions manual and both codes are listed. A4 is KM-Bus heating circuit pump and 02 is has something to do with high limit. The only other Viessmann things that were installed was a box that looks like a power supply, a low loss header (plus anything plugged into it) an outdoor temp sensor and anything needed for the Vitocell. The two air handlers have their own pumps without any mixing valves that provide different temps. I think the original installer figured the boiler would ramp up temps to the air handlers based on whatever logic is inside the boiler. I have no idea if this was a good design choice or not given the Vitodens was never really designed for hydro air.
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In my area we have lots of those attached to air handlers.
yeah the errors you gave (when I read them correctly) are for the older unit i suspected. That A4 is a weird code i've never seen. it thinks there is a variable speed heating circuit pump attached to the boiler (not boiler pump) and its not communicating so its running it to max speed. A4 won't be a lockout error. 02 is still FHL so like the tech did, look at air, flowrate etc. Controls, pump, fan are getting pretty pricey on those but they are all still available. we still stock all of the parts for that series at my shop but I have been cutting back a little since they becoming less common.
Whoever replaces it just make sure they dont assume they can reuse the outdoor sensor and DHW sensor. I cant remember exactly which model did this but one of the older ones used a different resistance sensor than everyone else did. most boilers now will come with their own DHW and ODR sensors so no big deal. If you have coax venting (pipe-in-a-pipe usually looks like a single white metal pipe) you may need an adapter to 2 pipe, some of the sizes were oddball in that era, most still just fit right to a new viessmann though.
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A lot of gunk on the fire side could be the burner out of adjustment.
Or the air it breaths has a lot to do with build up. Dust, pollen, bugs, etc. I'm seeing more intake filters being installed.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
The venting was done with the concentric tubes which Viessmann used at the time. Don't know if any sort of filter is possible with that setup. Hopefully we aren't sucking my wife's bees 😊
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It's more of a recent install method. Personally I only know one guy that does it. he calls it a hybrid intake. basically he pipes the fresh air to the boiler but cuts it off before the connection at the boiler, adds a high performance k&n filter to the intake port on the boiler. He uses it on all of his Viessmann installs. while it would help with bees, they would end up in the boiler room 😂
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Wild! Didn't realize Viessmann was still using a concentric connection into the boiler. I was half kidding about the bees. I've not seen them near the venting but assuming this unit gets fixed rather than replaced we'll see if any entered when it's serviced in 2 weeks. Waiting to hear from them on the cost for the needed replacement parts but they didn't sound like cheap parts (don't remember the exact description of the parts needed).
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larger ones still look like the pic above, they use an adapter to get to 2 pipes. the standard residential units are all built in though. they have a concentric connection and 2 intakes that come factory plugged. one for polypro, one for PVC. so you just take the plug out of whichever intake you use.
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We are just replacing this 20 year old Munchkin with a Vitodens 100 (model B1HC-150) because I advised the owner it was time. The Gianoni heat exchangers will spring a leak at this age and then you pay a lot more for emergency services in the middle of winter.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
And then there’s this Viessmann that wasn’t maintained properly.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
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Just an update… they diagnosed it to needing a replacement for the variable speed pump inside the Vitodens. The cost for these pumps plus labor are out of sight! Looking into a boiler replacement to have a point of comparison. One local contractor who came out to the house and does a lot of Viessmann has recommended going with the Vitodens 100 series for my setup. He said with only hydroair plus DHW production I wouldn't be using the advanced features of the 200 series anyway especially since the heat pumps are doing some of the space heating.
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All the new Grundfos Alphas have PWM and 0-10VDC inputs.
I suspect they are similar to the OEM pump that is in there. It probably has and OEM model number, but you can look that up for the pump curves. The Alpha 26-99E is now available if you need more head then a 15-58.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
Got a quote from the contractors who put in our heat pumps 4 years ago and they did a great job. The cost for a replacement Vitodens (100 series this time) was in the range I expected and seemed like doing a replacement is the smart choice rather than spending almost $4K on replacing the internal pump on the old unit assuming that was the full solution to the faulting.
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I just installed an Alpha 26-99 and it just had line voltage contacts.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
I think he means the UPSe 26-99 (this is the first i heard of this pump also)
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