Hot Water Heating System Pressure Too High
We bought this house recently and I am trying to correct some problems with the heating system due to poor maintenance. The house has a WMcL WGTO 4 boiler with a mono flow tee one pipe system in the basement. The first and second floor baseboard radiators are supplied from mono flow /regular tees on 1" copper pipe loop in the basement. The baseboard supply is either 1/2 or 3/4 inch copper based on the length of the baseboard in the various rooms. Think this is all pretty standard for a1955 home in CT. The pressure gauge indicated a pressure of 35psi which is much too high from what I know . I thought the pressure should be around 12-15 psi based on building height. The 2nd floor radiators are approx 17-18 ' above the boiler in the basement. I think I read where the system pressure could/should be be increased to aid in purging air from the mono flow system which is prone to getting air bound. The system is old style in that the pump is on the return side and there is an old style cast iron green Taco air scoop with automatic vent and there is an automatic air vent on the boiler itself . Any suggestions? Thanks
Comments
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Static fill pressure measured at the boiler could be 18' X .433 = 7.5, add 5 for positive pressure at the top, so 12- 13 psi.
The expansion tank needs to be charged to this before you pressurize.
Does pressure rise only when boiler is firing? If so the expansion tank could be waterlogged.
If it rises even when cold, the fill valve could be leaking by.
If it has a tankless coil for DHW, it could have a leak.
The relief valve should start seeping around 30 psi?
Once you fix the problem, replace the relief valve also. It is an inexpensive, critical safety device.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream2 -
Hot Rod, Thanks for your reply:
The pressure gauge indicates about 35psi. The boiler is cold and has been off since May because I have a HVAC system with Heat Pump and backup electric hot water tank. The Watts relief valve is set for 30 psi and there has never been any leakage. So, something is not right here. City water pressure is 45 psi;so I do not think there is a tankless coil leak. I have drained the system and bleed air from the baseboards several times and the pressure returns to 35 psi. I will check the pressure in the expansion tank to see if it is at 12 psi or higher. I think I saw where folks increase the pressure above what you suggested to make purging air faster. Overall, boiler has had bad/poor maintenance under previous owner 4 years ago. The boiler was over fired and the refractory chamber had cracked. Installed correct nozzle and new chamber and got efficiency up to 85%. Relief valve stuck? Watts fill valve pressure can be adjusted ?. Gauge faulty? Air Pressure in expansion tank ?
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Relief valve stuck? Watts fill valve pressure can be adjusted ?. Gauge faulty? Air Pressure in expansion tank ?
All the above!
How do you know the efficiency is @ 85%?
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Your expansion tank may very well have failed. The only way to check it is to remove it and check the air pressure, if the tank is heavy, your expansion tank bladder has failed.
One thing you need to keep in mind is you need to keep the water feed valve off after the boiler is filled and the pressure is correct after you bleed the system.
You can always check for a tankless coil leak by turning off the feed valve to the tank less coil removing the connection to the coil and opening the water feed valve for the boiler to verify it is not leaking.
If the bladder tank has not ruptured and the domestic hot water coil is not leaking turning the heat up on you thermostats and leaving it for a few hours will drive all the air out of the system as long as the air vents are not damaged and leaking- I hate those things. As long as you are into this repair this far, I would buy 2 new vents and the quarter inch pipe, pipe couplers and a ball valve for each one to allow you to change them without draining the boiler when they start leaking.
You will not go wrong if you replace the existing pressure gauge with an American made triple gauge from Marsh Instruments. They offer a 3 year warranty for workmanship from what I remember of my purchase of my 4 inch square triple gauge and they also offer a repair and recalibration service if needed.
If the expansion tank has failed installing the next larger size expansion tank will only help you as it will provide you with more room for expansion and provide you with a larger point of no pressure change since you are pumping into the boiler.
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pecmsg,
Last fall,. I had a boiler tech ( not from an oil company)come in and check efficiency using a combustion analyzer and adjust air intake as needed, after I did my usual tune up (nozzle, filter, pump screen) .
Leonz,
Thanks for your reply.
I understand and agree with all your comments. This boiler is probably 15-20 years old. Is trying to change the gauge a risky job. I don't want to snap off a threaded nipple in a boiler tapping.
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Perhaps now it would be best to send the boiler to the "great boiler hunting ground" before the heating season comes based on what you have mentioned previously?
The way my coal stoker boiler was installed by the clown car plumbers I hired took 3 days longer than it should have and cost much more than it should have because of the digital boiler controls that nearly blew up my house with the first unit with weeks of no central heat in January of 2015 and the second digital unit failed with flying colors and 5 months worth of bad words as well.
You lose faith in a hydrolevel digital control system while you are standing there watching the boiler temperature rise and the computer in the hydrolevel 3250+ system turns off the low water cut off switch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After that I purchased a honeywell L8124L mechanical triple aquastat, a Marsh Instruments 4 square inch triple gauge and a McDonnel & Miller RB-122-E immersed low water cut off switch to replace all the chinese made junk and round pressure gauge.
I will tell you that when I had a 15 gallon Bell & Gossett steel compression tank installed with the coal stoker for air management it solved my air problem with 225 feet of 3/4 inch fin tube baseboard(which I hate) by simply turning up the thermostat.
I used 3 of Mr. Holohans books in designing my new boiler system, they are CLASSIC HYDRONICS, PUMPING AWAY and HOW COME and they were a blessing to me as I told Mr. Holohan.
No more crawling around on artificial knees ever as I have 10 plus gallons of water mass above the boiler to create the point of pressure change to flood the suction of the B&G NRF 25 circulator set at speed one which is 12 gallons per minute that is not properly regulated due to the 1 inch tee that the hot water is pumped into for my 54 gallon system.
I used the diagram Mr. Holohan created for a steel compression tank in his pump module drawing and it has worked flawlessly except when I had a screaming vacuum leak which I traced to the packing gland nuts for my water gauge at the end of my steel compression tank. A quarter of a turn on the packing land nuts solved that issue.
A steel compression tank eliminated the bladder tank, air scoop and automatic air vents in my old system.
When assembling the pump module you can use an air scoop to feed the airtrol valve under the steel compression tank but using an Internal Air Separator to direct the air bubbles to the airtrol valve is simpler as the Internal Air Separator had a cast in place baffle the directs the air bubbles into the pipe that comes out of the top of the Internal Air Separator which directs the air bubbles to the airtrol valve threaded into the base of the steel compression tank. The air bubbles in the hot water pass through the airtrol valves hopt water casting to the warm water via the copper pipe in the airtrol valve and then into the steel compression tank and dissolve in the air blanket. The cooler water in the steel compression tank simply drops through the Airtrol valve via the cold water side of the airtrol casting and back into the hot water flow.
with my system my water feed valve is shut off completely as I do not need to add water to my system and no water enters the system through back flow preventer as the system is full of water.
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If the old gauge has large square flats for an open end wrench it should come off easily with little force. You should plan on draining the boiler if you do plan to change it though. If your system has a shut off valve or valves for the heating loop or loops all the better.
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I checked the expansion tank pressure and it looks to be around 12psi but some black water keeps squirting out the Shrader valve when I check pressure. The lower part of the tank near the vent valve sounds empty but why the black smelly water. Is the diaphragm leaking ? Expansion Tank comes off bottom of Green Taco Air Scoop.
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Yes, your bladder tank is bad and needs to be replaced.
The bladder disc has ruptured and can no longer work as your systems point of no pressure change as it is water logged.
It would be a good management decision to change out the automatic air vents with new ones as long as you have come this far.
If you have a paint pen it would be a good idea to paint the date you replaced them on the air vents and the bladder tank so you have a future reference.
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Leonz,
Thanks for your reply. I closed the boiler fill valve ( the boiler has been off since May) and drained about a 1 1/2 gallons of water out of the system and the pressure gauge went to 0 psi. So, I know the pressure gauge is working. I will leave it this way for a while to be sure the tankless coil does not have a leak that would raise the boiler pressure due to city water pressure inside the coil leaking into the closed heating system. I will go ahead and install a new expansion tank( filled to 12 psi)and automatic air vents , one on the air scoop and one on boiler itself , installed on a 1/2 inch pipe riser. After all that is done, I will refill the system and check pressure. If it is still to high, I assume I will need to adjust the fill valve pressure to a lower fill pressure. I still have a question if I need higher system pressure to aid in bleeding air from a mono flow tee one pipe heating system on 2 levels. I seem to recall that I read that here once. Thanks.
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Hello and good afternoon BrooklynMike,
If the fill valve is set with 12 pounds pressure that will work, all you need to do is turn your thermostat all the way up to heat the water in the boiler and drive out the air bubbles. After a couple of hours all the microbubbles should have passed through the new automatic air vents and then you can shut the fill valve off.
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