Wirsbo Manifold Adjustments

rileyrealestate · October 2020

Hi, Looking for some help. Purchased a 20-year house in MN with Wirsbo floor heat in the basement. It has 8 zones. Looking to adjust the manifold to increase heat in some rooms and decrease in others. I read that the initial setting (mid-point) is a dime above the brass collar. Is it correct that screwing the black disk on top of the manifold down all the way will open the zone up completely and conversely, screwing the black disk on the top of the manifold up all the way will close the zone completely? This seems backwards to me, plus, my threading is about 1/2 inch, so a dime does not appear to be midway. Can anyone offer me some advice. Thanks in advance!

Big Ed_4 · October 2020

Yes , I would first make sure the manifold is piped correctly . Most are installed incorrectly . It should be piped reverse return , Meaning ...The first loop out should be the last to return . Post photos of manifolds and label each loop . Piping it incorrectly is a Normal mistake

GroundUp · October 2020

There is absolutely zero reason for reverse return piping with radiant manifolds. None whatsoever. If there were even the slightest bit of pressure drop (there never is), that's why we have balancing valves. Reverse return is a complete farce and waste of time in this regard.

To the OP, yes you are correct with how the loops adjust. Do your manifolds have the glass flowmeter globes on top? Some do and some don't. Without flowmeters, it's really just a crapshoot unless you know the exact length of each loop. You can start by cranking in the valves on the zones you want cooler by a turn or so, and waiting a couple days to see how it responds. It may take weeks to get it dialed in, but there's not much other choice that I'm aware of without flowmeters

hot_rod · October 2020

When we talk reverse return on radiant manifolds, it is merely staggering the loop connections. So the first loop fed, is the last returned. Really over a very short manifold trunk dimension it is probably not a huge deal.

Ideally a load calculation and radiant design would indicate where to set each balance valve.
Or as you suggest, adjust to your needs or liking. That is one of the beauties of hydronics, very adjustable.

rileyrealestate · October 2020

To the responders, thank you. Just 2 basic questions. The black top disk (no glass flowmeter globe). Is it correct that if I turn it clockwise or crank it down to the brass collar, it opens it up completely? Conversely, when I turn it counter-clockwise or crank it up from the brass collar, it closes it completely? Secondly, I read that a midpoint is 1 dime width above the brass collar, is that correct? This is a 21-year old Wirsbo system with 8 zones (16 hoses), heating about 2,500 sq. ft. in the walkout basement level. The central heating has supplemental vents in the ceilings. Thanks again.

Big Ed_4 · October 2020

All parallel systems should be piped reverse return .

MikefromMn · October 2020

On my Wirsbo manifolds, they are open when turned counterclockwise(loose). No flow meter on my old brass manfold. Newer EP (plastic) manifold has flowmeters and turned in (clockwise) is closed.

TAG · October 2020

I have always questioned the notion of reverse return -- has there ever been any real world study of this ? My memory of fluids class (not prefect) ... seems to say that with proper circulator ... flow /head -- this is not happening.

hot_rod · October 2020

conceptually it is pretty simple, resistance in each piping path would match.
In reality the calculations look like this.
The perfect RR would have then pipe sized to the gpm each section sees. So pipe size reduces as loads are taken off, reversed on the return.

camplunalinda · February 28

Good morning .. anyone around to review my dilemma ? My Wirsbo system was installed 20+ years ago .. 5 loops .. 2 thermostats ..

original design =

bathroom thermostat controlled 1 loop .. #4 loop (bathroom) 119'

living room thermostat controlled 4 loops #1 loop (bedroom) 150'

#2 loop (entry) 167'

#3 loop (living room) 228'

#5 loop (kitchen) 196'

I rewired the system myself ..

I wired the 3 shorter loops ..

#4 119' eastside

#1 150' northside

#2 167' northside

to the bathroom thermostat ..

I wired the 2 longer loops ..

#3 228' southside

#5 196' southside

to the livingroom thermostat

I have proved it

the 2 longer loops DO NOT completely exchange the cool water for hot ..

the 3 shorter loops DO completely exchange cool water for hot ..

(it takes only nine minutes from raising the thermostat in the bathroom to feel the hot water in the return pipe)

I am okay with the 2 longer loops exchanging the cool water for warm (not hot) in the same 9 minutes ..

MY DILEMMA

are the loops not completely exchanging cool water for hot causing my dilema?

it is causing the wicked static pulling dust like bunnies to the floor and everywhere really ..

I am wondering why the static problem NOW?

did it start when I rewired the loops

without adjusting the loop pressure?

any suggestions?

thank you ..

hot_rod · February 28

Did you drain water out to make the changes? If so it could be air locked.

Or mis wired?

Static is often due to low humidity in the space.

camplunalinda · March 1

Thank You for your prompt response. .

I did not drain the system. ..

I do not know how to do that ..

Would an air lock create static?

I think i would have to call someone to flush the system ..

2. i think the wiring is right ..

I see the WIRSBO VALVE cylinder rise/fall as i increase/decrease the temp on the thermostats ..

on the 3 short loops when I turn the temp up/down on the bathroom thermostat..

on the 2 long loops when I turn up/down on the livingroom thermostat ..

3. my building is small. 726' ... the 6" concrete slab is exposed .. yeah .. yes low humidity .. I use throw rugs .. I also arranged some cut wooden flooring boards into rug size wooden mats. .. I place rugs on top of them ..

I am trying to understand when/why the static started. .. 3 or4 years ago ..

For many years the floors stayed so clean .. I rarely had to sweep or mop the concrete floor .. never saw any lint like bundles .. not like now … the bundles are bigger almost daily .. I first noticed the excess lint in the dryer .. almost always pinkish .. 8 or 10 times bigger than a cotton ball .. with every dryer load ..

Would painting the floor with anti-static paint help? .. Would that restore the floor like before the static started ?

Thank You for your expertise...

again Thank You again

camp

I am hoping to rule out the floor ..

hot_rod · March 1

When you have loops of different lengths the short loops get more flow. So with the original design there would have been a balancing spec. But basically turn down or off the loops that are working to push more flow through the weak loops. If it is air, that may be enough to get things moving.

Does the manifold has plastic site glass/ balance valves? Got a pic?

epmiller · March 2

@camplunalinda Your static problem is not related to the hydronic loop system, there's something else that is introducing the excess dust into your living space. My first guess is your clothes dryer. There are so many possible of points of failure in the exhaust stream of those things. Warping plastic lint filters from age and high heat are very common on some models. I personally hate that appliance but it has become a necessity in our modern lifestyle. I've worked on too many of them that had leaking or badly installed exhaust ducts that introduced lint back into the living space.

Just running a dryer in the winter is taking a lot of the heated air from your house and blowing it outside which draws cold low humidity air in from the outdoors. Your heating system then has to heat it back up in a vicious cycle. Without introducing extra moisture into the air your relative humidity inside gets very low and static rears it's ugly head.

hot_rod · March 2

if the dryer vent is leaking you will get those lint balls. If it is disconnected completely you would get some humidity from the moisture being removed. Unless it runs long after clothes is dry?

The dryer vents should be disconnected occasionally to clean out the dryer connection and all the vent piping.

Is it a gas or electric dryer?

camplunalinda · March 2

Good Morning Experts. ..

Last year I heard a mouse in my wall ..

I found that the dryer vent was not initially installed properly ..

There was a gap ..

between the dryer vent hose ..

and the exterior wall. ..

at Habitat for Humanity I found a piece of vent long enough to close the gap ..

some critter had chewed the plastic vent cover. ..

I was able to upgrade the vent cover ..

after I baited/trapped/drowned the mouse ..

There was a local handy man. ..

expert at servicing appliances ..

I will look him up ..

A clogged dryer vent is fire hazard!!

I will share the results ..

About the floor ..

Wirsbo Manifolds. ..

from the installer (2003) I have the original balancing specs. ..

there are no sight balance valves ..

I do not have the tools or skills to balance the specs ..

I do know how to disconnect one loop at a time. ..

(disconnect the wire to it)

that would be something if it blew out an air lock ..

this so helpful. ..

I will make a small donation ..

when I have the results ..

I will report the results of cleaning the dryer vent ..

I will report the results of running one loop at a time ..

thank you for your consideration ..

thank you for your expertise. ..

camp

hot_rod · March 2

Yeah, it is hard for us to gauge how much of the troubleshooting/repair you want to tackle, or call a pro.

You can get a digital meter to measure humidity in the home.

A low level CO detector may be a good investment, especially with gas appliances

At this point the system could need a good flush to clean out scale from all the piping, boiler, loops, pump etc. 20 years could amount to a lot of sludge in the system.

Wirsbo Manifold Adjustments

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