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ChatGPT, AI

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Intplm.
Intplm. Member Posts: 2,979

Have you used ChatGPT for your trade? How about AI? Recently a very new young apprentice gave me an answer he found using ChatGPT. The answer that he received was wrong.

Are these apps learning apps?

I am suspicious about this and or these technologies. Has anyone used it for installation procedures. Ive seen it used for calculation but not for installation of say plumbing or heating installations. What say you?

Comments

  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,576

    Always got to double check everything that you see on AI. But certainly good for finding resources and things like that.

    Intplm.bjohnhyCLamb
  • Robert_25
    Robert_25 Member Posts: 568

    AI is very powerful, but you have to know how to use it and it's limitations. If you ask AI a vague question, you will get a vague response - and hallucinations are something you need to be mindful of. Also consider that a lot of data available to AI might not be accurate.

    e.g. if you ask AI where you should mount a circulator, AI is going to find a bunch of forum posts where people insist the circulator mounted on the boiler return.

    If you ask the same question with a bit more context and tell AI to limit its sources to professional heating publications and boiler installation manuals, you will probably get a different result. The way you instruct AI is called the "Prompt", and the way you do it is critical to the result.

    I took a free class called "Google AI Essentials" and I thought it was well worth my time. If nothing else, you can use AI to really speed up the creation of documents that are very similar, and it can be a big help with writing professional communications.

    Intplm.TheUpNorthState88dabrakeman
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 11,949

    I have user ChatGPT to edit some of my letters to make them sound either more official, or kinder, or friendlier. And that seems to work. Take an angry response to an email that you would like to send and have ChatGPT look at it and ask ChatGPT to make this sound friendly, and you get a great response that gives all the necessary information to that dummy and won't rub the recipient the wrong way.

    Example:

    What I want to send:

    What the f are you thinking, you idiot, you can not put the check in the same envelope with the request. can't you follow instructions? it clearly states that you submit the request then wait for the response before you send the check. how stupid can you be? Wait for the response and then send the stupid check in the envelope provided for checks. Will you ever learn you moron? I am mailing your check back and maybe I might think about forwarding your request to the proper channel

    What ChatGPT sent:

    Hello,

    I want to clarify an issue with the materials you sent.

    The instructions require that the request be submitted first, and that you wait for a response before sending a check. The check should only be mailed after approval, using the envelope specifically provided for payments. Including the check with the initial request does not follow the required process.

    Because of this, I will be returning your check to you. Once you receive a response to your request, you may then send the check in the appropriate envelope as directed.

    Please be sure to follow the instructions carefully going forward, as this helps avoid delays and additional handling.

    Thank you for your attention to this matter.

    Regards,

    I think AI is great for this stuff. It is what it is made for and has clearly learned how to communicate with idiots so they don't get their nose out of joint.

    When it comes to technical topics, however, I’ve noticed that some of my own responses about heating equipment have been used by ChatGPT to answer questions for others. The system is constantly learning, but that creates a problem.

    ChatGPT gathers information from many contributors across many websites, and it does not reliably distinguish between correct and incorrect answers. As a result, inaccurate information can be treated the same as accurate information and repeated as part of its responses.

    Unless errors are clearly pointed out and corrected, ChatGPT may continue to absorb both correct and incorrect explanations as if they are equally valid.

    So YES it is learning and it is not always correct.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    Intplm.GGrossAlan (California Radiant) ForbesMaxMercy
  • EODagon
    EODagon Member Posts: 8

    The biggest downside of using ChatGBT or any other AI. I feel like it tries to agree with what your asking. Like if you ask it a almost leading question it will try its best to confirm your side. So you really have to watch the way you word things.

    Intplm.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,979

    @EdTheHeaterMan I hope you add that example to your book in a chapter maybe called, "Communication"

    Thanks for that post. Im not using it. At least not yet.

    Larry WeingartenRascalOrneryEdTheHeaterMan
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,829

    I am curious to know what question the apprentice asked and what answer they got?

    My opinion is that most install related questions are not great to trust with current public AI models. Think of a few very specific install related questions that you know the answer for and ask it, see if it gets it right. sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. then ask it do some math, I bet it gets that right. I'm not going to use my toaster as a replacement for a heat gun, it won't really work, but it toasts bread a whole lot easier than my heat gun would. learning how to leverage your tools in the correct way is a skill in itself that goes beyond the trades.

    Intplm.EdTheHeaterManbjohnhy4GenPlumber
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,979

    @GGross It was a few weeks ago. I don't remember the exact words but it was about a type of plumbing drainage issue that code requirements in my area did not allow for. I remember it was way off topic.

    The problem for me is how impressionable some one so young, or any age can be, and take the word of ChatGBT with out questioning it.

    GGrossbjohnhy
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,258

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,997
    edited February 4

    like everything else with a Computer garbage and garbage out.
    Will it be a useful tool? I think it will be a I don’t see it replacing the tech with knowledge and brains and that gut feeling

    Intplm.CLamb
  • RascalOrnery
    RascalOrnery Member Posts: 137

    Gut feeling is not always quantifiable.

    AI seems great for data collection and some math related items. I think it will get a lot better. I'd rather talk to a human if possible.

    The AI phone prompts ive used have worked great.

  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 4,060

    Hmm, Ask 20 plumbers how to solder copper pipe and you'll get 25-30 answers. Wonder what AI would do with such diversity?

    image.png

    Yours, Larry

    GGrossIntplm.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 11,949

    I remember the first time I heard about "AI". I thought the comments were about basket ball player Allen Iverson. I was told that AI does not refer to basket ball. So it must be Artificial Insemination, Right". No it means Artificial Intelligence.

    Oh really? Well I prefer Actual Intelligence over anything artificial …and that is hard to come by today!

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    Intplm.Larry Weingartenbjohnhy
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,997

    more than once my gut has told me there’s something else keep looking

    EdTheHeaterManIntplm.
  • kenjohnson
    kenjohnson Member Posts: 102

    I'm not a plumbing professional, but I use AI at work and work with others that use AI.

    Where it is really helpful - for carefully constrained answers on well-described topics (e.g., read this manual and help me understand where it describes solving this problem), or for speeding up a time-consuming task (transcribe this video into English and correct any grammatical mistakes the speaker made).

    Where it is not very helpful - when people ask it something very complex with very poor instructions and then use the answer given as if it came from God.

    Robert_25EdTheHeaterMan
  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 723

    I always instruct AI not to consult forum information, and restrict to more authoritative sources of information, like manufacturers.

    Intplm.
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 592

    I'll have to try that. When I ask AI questions on certain subjects of which I am close to being an expert (there are truly few experts on anything in the world), I often get answers which are often misleading or mostly wrong. I believe this is from information culled from forums.

    While forums might be one of the best sources of information, a lot of it is simply wrong, and if the debate of two competing theories ends with the person taking the wrong tack no longer responding, AI may assume the last to comment is correct.

    For that reason, I no longer use AI. Someday perhaps we'll have a truly sentient box (like Star Trek computers), but we've got a long way to go. At my age, I don't think I'll see that come to pass.

    But getting back to this comment from the Captain, I may try asking AI some questions again asking it to avoid forum information entirely.

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,770
    edited February 17

    25% of AI is garbage, so how can you trust it. AI is just a compilation of the postings on the Web and you know how disinformational (present site excepted) that is. Reliance of information is dependent on experience and judgement, I would think.

    Look, success in life requires you to do the hard work. The Web is a great tool, but relying on it as the only store of knowledge will last until the next Carrington Event.

    CLamb
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 11,949

    @HomerJSmith …. Are you saying that the internet can't be trusted? I thought that everything on the internet was true! I always hear my friends tell me that they found the answer on the internet, so it must be true!

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    HomerJSmithIntplm.MaxMercy
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,770
    edited February 17

    I saw a video on the internet of President Obama telling the Nation that we have 58 states. I believe him.

    @EdTheHeaterMan, your posts seem infallible, looking back on my life, I've made so many mistakes that if I didn't, I wouldn't gotten anything done.

    Would one say mistakes are the path to getting things right?

    EdTheHeaterManIntplm.MaxMercy
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,979

    @HomerJSmith I would agree with your quote…"Would one say mistakes are the path to getting things right?" But. Im not so sure I would want to follow the "path" of ChatGBT or AI in the context of our trade while the wrong answers keep flowing and the wheels keep spin——Hold up! I was doing to say spinning but the wheels stopped because ChatGBt was followed. Oops. LOL.

    I can see from the responses that this will take some cautious thought.

    HomerJSmith
  • patrykrebisz
    patrykrebisz Member Posts: 105
    edited February 17

    with something that you know a lot about, especially if it's an obscure subject, AI fails on its face.

    BUT, most of our search for knowledge occurs on somehow bannal level. as such AI, fullfils its mission 80-90% of time.

    »»» See my steam heat YouTube videos:
    https://www.youtube.com/@HeatingBlog

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,770
    edited February 18

    THE QUESTION IS: is AI going to replace you as a technician in the Heating Industry? The answer is YES and NO.

    Although, AI is pattern recognition and consensus, presently, in 20 years it will most likely become a repository of knowledge, easily accessible. Guys like @hot_rod, @EdTheHeaterMan, @DanHolohan , @RayWohlfarth , etc. whose learning and experience has served this site and the posters seeking solutions to personal problems, well, AI will make them irrelevant. The technicians of the future will not need the learning and experience of a bygone era. They will only need to know how to access AI and input the symptoms the customer is experiencing with his boiler and AI will diagnosis the problem and provide a solution with greater accuracy. Knowledge not required.

    Technicians will still be needed to change out parts. That's the No part.

    Do it your self, individuals, will use the easily available AI to diagnose their problem and make the repairs themselves. There will be less work for technicians and less need for technicians. Competition for work will increase. That's the YES part.

    Even this site will radically change, if it even exists in the future. The problem with technology replacing knowledge and experience is if the technology goes away for some reason, knowledge and experience are lost and we are back in the dark ages, trying to rebuild society again. AI, a blessing and a curse!

    https://healthranger.substack.com/p/the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-why?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1225906&post_id=188141161&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=13chh&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 27,237

    another issue coming up with AI replacing people is that AI doesn’t pay taxes like workers do. So when you start replacing millions of employed humans with AI?? Who makes up the shortfall?

    AI is already hitting our electric rates for its needed generation and infrastructure requirements.
    Around here the AI companies nice tax breaks and incentives to move to State. Seems to even be a bidding war going in for AI businesses

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Intplm.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,979

    A tax revenue short fall? I didn't think of that one. Makes sense.