Gelling...

ThermalJake · February 8

In NY. Minus zero last night and tonight.

Outdoor (under a deck, with walls, but not airtight, or insulated) 2 x 275, top feeder, with 2 pipes. Goes overhead about 6 feet with a heat tape on it, and then inside the garage/basement overhead for about 30 feet. Drops to the filter, and then the burner.

Megasteam 513, with AFG.

Recent delivery (not Kero - I missed calling them on time) A little bit of sputtering, so I changed the filter that day. I also added some super de-geller from the supply house which is supposed to treat both water (which I dont think I have) and pour point. About two days later, the filter was leaking and I found a pin hole in the bottom of the canister housing (so maybe i did have some water - heh), so I replaced that. Good for a couple of days.

Last night, it sputtered a bit, but kept going. I have 2 x 5 gal of kero as emergency, just in case (I always keep them handy.) This morning, I changed the filter again, but it looked good - no black or slime on it. Today, it is mostly good, but still sputters.

So I am thinking of how to fix this permanently.

I plan to insulate and box in the tank(s), and I have to check the heat tape on the first 6 feet of piping, but I was also considering a tank heater. Perhaps a submersible one like the Rollie TH-44, or DTH-44. However, some say that heating and cooling may create more sludge. Does anyone have any first-hnd experince with these type of devices? And could I get one locally on a sunday

Evryone here has great ideas, like moving the tanks inside, or moving the overhead line to the ground, but those are probably not possible, and certainly not in the short term. The next group of ideas seem to be to insulate and box, in, and maybe install an exposed 100 watt light buklb under the tank to keep it warm. I guess this sounds like it would work; is it better than a dip tube heater?

I ws even thinking that in the very short term, maybe I would take the 200 foot heat tape I have on my shelf and wrap it around the tank, attach it with tape, and then wrap that with fiberglass insulation. Boxing it in this afternoon would be a big job, but is possible.

I also have a brand new tigerloop downstairs in the box. I guess I could install that, but from what I have read, it is actually designed to be an anti-aerator, with the residual benefits of keeping the oil in a warmer climate for longer as it prepares to be burned. But it is not actually a solution to cold oil, is it?

Anyway. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or help.

Thermaljake.

Big Ed_4 · February 8

Water will settle below the oil lines and freeze into ice, blocking the suction line . Any dip in the suction line would catch water and freeze too. .. I would run a temporary suction line to get by until the thaw …There should be a drain valve to remove any water . If not you need to pump out though top …. The collected water also breeds the sludge that plugs things up.

Jon_blaney · February 8

Is the burner at the same level as the tanks or do you have some siphon effect? That long pump draw may be causing bobbles to form. Install the Tiger Loop. Why the two tanks? I use to have problems every winter. Went to a system with one tank, topped off every month, Tiger Loop. No problems since. Insulating the tanks just keeps the oil cold.

Jamie Hall · February 8

Hot-Shot EDT with every load of fuel you get.

HydronicMike · February 8

Get/keep the water out of the tank. Drain the water before freezing temps, treat every load with an additive.
Get rid of the two pipe set up. Single pipe, and depending on the relationship of the tank to the burner, if it's a lift job or overhead line, tiger loop. If not, just single pipe.
You could wrap heat tape to the supply line and run it anytime the temp is below freezing. Especially if you are using bio fuel.
Important to check/drain water off the bottom.

Mad Dog_2 · February 8

Small day tank indoors. Mad Dog

HVACNUT · February 8

Being 2 pipe, and the weather what it is, it shouldn't be sitting long enough to gel. What makes you think its a delivery issue?

An outside tank should get an additive right before every delivery.

When was the last time it was serviced? Was a combustion test done?

ThermalJake · February 9

Thank you all. These are all good thoughts. Between these, plus other reading, and talking with colleagues, it gives me a lot to think about. But in the meantime, I also took action today, which I will explain.

I am going to try to respond to some of what you have said, and hope that I understood it!

Starting with Big Ed and Hydronics Mike, I have never drained the water off of the bottom, but I have a drain. I never thought of doing that. Is that something that all homeowners should do? And technicians advise? I guess it is like blowing down my boiler water, water heater, and well tanks. I do all of those before winter. I could add this to the list.

But I was thinking more that it was from the paraffin separating out, not the water. If you guys think it was the water, I will proceed that way.

The suction comes out of the top of the tank, and rises up about 12-14 inches, where it loops back down about 10 inches to the hole in the concrete wall. That is a low spot. The once in side, it rises up to the cieling level, and runs about 30 feet to the farthest end of the basement, where it drops down to the boiler. I never thought about it, but perhaps that little "p-trap" where it goes through the wall might be collecting water…(?) I'll tryto send a picture, if i can figure out how to do that.

This setup has been in place since about 1997, before I owned the house, and my father retired the tank in the ground, with 2 x 275's. Jon_blaney, I keep thinking about the difference between #2, #1, and kerosene. I only have this problem when it gets super cold for a long time. We have not had this for about 10 years. So I realize that it could be water, or it could be separating oil, or could be sludge. But since this group of people is about thinnking first, and taking action second, does it make sense that it could be water or slidge but ONLY when cold? I know the water can turn to ice, but what does that do? Clog the lines? How would the tigerloop help that? I thought the ide behind that was to get the oil out of the tank slower, and then once it was inside the basement, it could warm (relatively) and then could just circulate between the tigerloop and the burner. I just cant picture how that might be better. Or, maybe I should say that the tigerloop might be better, genberally, but how is it better for this instant issue? ANd you think insulating the tanks is NOT a good idea, or at least not neccesary? This is the feeling i have gotten, but you are thei first one to actually say that.

Jamie Hall, I think this might be a good idea, as a prophylactic also, but I added a bottle after this last delivery, and it did not seem to tbe deciding factor. WHat helped was the temp went up diring the day, and I also swapped the filter to get rid of the paraffin. Then when it got colder the next night, it gelled up again. I doubt anyone would siggest to keep adding HotShot, right? Does that give us a hint?

Finally, thanks to you too, Mad_Dog_2. It has been a while since we communicated. As I mentioned, I have two small tanks inside right now, and ready to go. This is a good idea. Perhaps I should get a larger one that could last a month through the cold. Or perhaps if I call them before they come for the January deliery, I can get one fillup of kerosene.

I find it interesting that people dont really have a goal of keeping the oil warmer. Perhaps what one gentleman said is true - that warming the oil just promotes more sludge. When I went out there today, I found the heat tape from the tank into the basement (first 12 feet or so) was cold. It was not working. So i peeled back the insulation, and removed the old heat tape, and replaced it with a new one, re insulated the pipes, and even put an additional wrapping of fiberglass around it. By the time I got it wrapped up, even my numb hands could feel that it was warmer. I am hoping that will take care of the short term. And i will report back.

But now I am focunsed on the two things that I think I should do - first, drain off any water or sludge, and second, try to re route the line so it doesnt go up, down, up again. Since I cant really lower the lines off of the ceiling, I guess I will install the tigerloop. The burner is on the same level as the tank, but since it comes out the top, and goes up right away, perhaps that puts a strain on the pump.

Okay. Thank you again. If I missed anything, please feel free to add to this. and if you have any firther questions, please ask.

Jake.

Jon_blaney · February 9

Check with you oil dealer to see if they deliver a winter blend of oil, and if it is all year. Could be with the large volume of oil you store, the mix is ineffective. Definitely install the Tiger Loop. It will solve any hydraulic issues. Still curious why the two tanks.

Big Ed_4 · February 9

The layer between the water and oil , algae will grow and feed on the oil . Its waste product is the sludge . Kill the environment to stop the sludge. .. Also the algae cannot digest the sulfur in the oil , the sludge also made up of sulfuric acid ..

The tiger loop is a very good idea to reduce the amount of oil that is pumped through the oil lines. I prefer them over the two pipe ..

Your new tank , bottom feed and pitch the tank toward the valve ..

ThermalJake · February 9

Thanks.

Jon_blaney, I bought the house from my father in 2001. Back in 1996 or 1997 he did various DIY upgrades, like replacing the old boiler with a BurnhamV75, but piped it the way the old boiler came out - with 2 inch copper, and a bull-head tee, and no hartford loop, etc. He also retired a 1k gal tank that was buried next to the house. I was around and helped when we dug it up, sucked out all the old oil, mopped up a bunch of sludge, and filled it with sand and rock, I think. I dont know the answer to why he chose two tanks, except that maybe he figured 2x275 is closer to 1k than 1x275.

After your question, I went back to look at my deliveries for the last 12 months. I got about 250 gallons of #2 delivered in April 2025, December 2025, and again in January 2026. So I am now curious too. Why do I need two tanks? Maybe I can just get one new one, and put it inside.

Secondly, several years ago, when we had a very cold winter, I called ahead of the next deleivery and got kerosene, instead. I thought I was on that regular schedule, but i guess not. When I called last week, I thought they said I got winter mix, but I jst looked at my account and they delivered #2, but also put a can of additive in it.

I also added a can of additive in just the tank with the siphon. I imagine it might disperse throughout, but I am sure it concentrates where I poured it, as opposed to where they poured it in the filler; that is the other tank.

The heat ran all night. It did sputter a few times, but made it without going into lockout. I have a busy week at work, but I may be able to at least put the tigerloop in service this week. And I will also drain off the bottom. I cant wait to see what comes out! I have never done it before, at least 25 years.

Thanks again.

Big Ed_4 · February 9

Todays #2 fuel oil will start breaking down in 6 months . So it is not a good idea to store oil past that .. Large tanks were popular years back for the pennies discount off the gallon .

ThermalJake · February 9

Do you have any experience with those square galvanized tanks with the double walls?

I'm thinking that if I am going to replace it, I will put it inside and nearer to the boiler.

Jake

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