Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
If our community has helped you, please consider making a contribution to support this website. Thanks!

Frozen forced hot water zone

Options
WhirlingD
WhirlingD Member Posts: 87

Hi everybody…

It seems likely that I have a frozen zone in my 250 year-old salt box house.

During a deep freeze a few years ago that zone froze as well, and I had a burst pipe that was fortunately fixed under my homeowners insurance.

This likely occurred because of a failed thermostat wire, which may have been chewed by a mouse. I haven’t been able to correct that, since the wire runs through walls and I can’t get the thing out. I do have a plan to run a new wire outside along the side of the outside wall and back in through a cable TV conduit and up to the thermostat, but I managed not getting this done for all last winter by leaving that particular zone and room as a barely heated unused space.

The singular room that this zone heats is adjacent to the main living area that is heated by a woodstove. At night, I simply leave the door open, and the room usually stays somewhere in the high 30s°F. Last year the pipes did not freeze. I thought I was good.

Suddenly, even after a few days that weren’t that cold, I can get no water flowing through those pipes when I do my usual cold snap emergency measure of manually opening that zone by lowering the plunger on the Taco zone valve.

But this time around, no water is circulating.

With the help of AI, it seems that it is strongly likely that there is a frozen section of the pipe in that room. Likely where the pipe goes through a small inaccessible portion between the original foundation and this add-on room.

I asked AI if it would be a reasonable thought to just leave the pipe frozen until it thaws naturally, since there may not be any other easy way to bring it above freezing, and it said it was a reasonable idea, and that the risk of it bursting again might be low.

Last night I had what I thought was a pretty good idea of how to prevent this from happening again, but I won’t be able to do that until the pipes thaw. I thought maybe I would put a temporary short wire to a thermostat that I will leave in the basement, near the boiler, and just have the temperature set to a degree or so above what the basement is, so anytime the thermostat falls below that temperature the zone would open and allow water to go through that zone to prevent it from freezing moving forward until I get the wire situation sorted out in the other room. May not be a great solution. Maybe you can suggest alternatives?

So… Do you think I should just leave this room unheated for the rest of the winter? Maybe I could empty the rest of the water out of that zone to lower the pressure for when the thing does start to thaw? Not really sure how to bleed the system when it’s back up and running though.

I really have zero cash for a service call, so I pretty much have to figure out how to do this on my own. If it bursts, I hope my homeowner insurance would cover it. I’ve been dealing with this kind of crap for years. They may just throw their hands up in the air and say figure out a better plan moving forward.


What do you think?

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,991

    Is there a way you can drain just that zone? It would be much more prudent to at least try to get the water out of it — if nothing else, you can tell the insurance that you did that to minimize further damage.

    Whatever, if you really think it's frozen, close both ends of it — not just the zone valve — so that when it thaws, if it has burst it won't drain your whole system.

    The idea of a low temperature thermostat in an accessible location is reasonable as a short terrm patch. It will be much better to repair the thermostat situation in the space, however, and keep that zone operating at all times.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    mattmia2
  • WhirlingD
    WhirlingD Member Posts: 87

    Thank you, Jamie…


    I see you and I are both in New England. Welcome to the dog days of winter!

    I should have figured out how to manage the thermostat wire over the summer, but I deprioritized it, mainly because I was able to get that room through last winter just by opening the zone valve on the coldest nights, and I put the Wi-Fi thermostat right down where the pipe is to get a gauge for how cold the room was getting, and when it started to get down towards freezing, I would just open the valve and let it run.

    I guess that strategy caught up with me this year.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 15,980

    if it does thaw without damage, you could close the isolation valve for that zone most of the way and keep the zone valve manually open so it will keep some heat flowing in that zone. if it is baseboard the emitter itself likely froze where the wall meets the floor, that area usually has a lot of infiltration so something like +10 and windy is more likely to freeze it than -10 and calm.

  • WhirlingD
    WhirlingD Member Posts: 87

    I hadn’t thought about leaving the isolation valve only partly open for some water to get through there. That’s a very useful strategy, thank you.


    I was thinking that I could only use the zone valve shut off lever, and wasn’t really sure it could be halfway and be effective. I like your suggestion!


    If I’m understanding this correctly, if I left the zone valve open, but closed the isolation valve mostly down, only a little bit of water would go through that zone, activated by the other zone’s call for heat… And that would probably prevent the system from freezing?


    Am I getting that right?


    Brilliant! Thank you!

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 15,980

    yes

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 27,052

    it is fairly rare that a copper tube frozen for any period of time would not burst. If you are sure it froze, I would definitely isolate it for now.

    An air lock is another potential cause of no flow.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    mattmia2
  • WhirlingD
    WhirlingD Member Posts: 87

    Thanks…

    That makes me scratch my head a bit, because that zone was working not that long ago when I tried it last.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 27,052

    Flowing water doesn’t usually freeze, that is why some people let a faucet drip in freezing conditions.

    So the zone would need to be off and the pipes exposed to below freezing conditions.

    Air leakage around the bottom of the wall framing is another condition that freezes hydronic heat.

    If you are shutting down zones, hydronic antifreeze, glycol, may be a worthwhile option.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,408

    I would glycol the system for freeze protection if you want to shut zones off .. Right now keep them heated this winter ..

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,906

    @WhirlingD

    If you have isolation valves on the feed and return of that zone, shut them off for now. That should stop the potential leak.

    If you can identify where the last leak from the freeze up was there's a good chance the freeze up will be there or near there again. If you have a torch and can safely use it on the pipes, you can try to thaw it that way.

    At times I have run a zone wild ie. the thermostat on that zone turned all the way up and opened the return . While the boiler is running and heating the water in that zone it will thaw the zone. A hose connected on the return, flowing the potentially thawed water. Doing this depends on how comfortable you are with working on your system. If available get some help.

    Leaving the zone essentially abandoned over the winter will create another leak.

    What @Big Ed_4 says above is what you should do from now on. Put glycol (non-toxic) in your boiler. Now or later. But do it.