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Air vent recommendations

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  • dabrakeman
    dabrakeman Member Posts: 866

    "…it can follow the return connection to the radiator…"

    If the main vent is at the end of the main and has closed on steam and there is no venting back at the boiler at the end of the return please explain why the steam would want to travel into the return let alone head up the small diameter radiator return to close off the radiator vent? I can certainly understand the radiator vent closing prematurely due to its location on the radiator but not seeing the flow path. IF the main vents were at the boiler then I could certainly see steam traversing the radiator , closing the radiator vent, entering the radiator return then entering the main return.

  • angelotrivelli
    angelotrivelli Member Posts: 41

    I thought you had parallel flow mains (highest point is back at the boiler and they slow AWAY from the boiler (at least 1" per 20ft)?

    @dabrakeman, sorry, I should have marked up on the schematic from @Steamhead's article that another difference with mine is that highest point of the main is farthest from the boiler for both main/return pipes. Yet another thing wrong with my system!

    All this stuff said, the system has been sort of working. The heating on the 2nd and especially 3rd floors is much less than on the 1st. Insulating the pipes the other week helped a lot, but my understand from reading is that all radiator should heat up roughly the same in a correctly configured system— I still have a long way to go.

    I am in the process of making a CAD drawing of my system (with measured details on pipes, pitch, radiator EDR's).

    I am thinking of finding a pro to consult on what changes need to be made to my current system to make a proper 2-pipe system. In other words have a pro develop a plan (possibly in phases) and then find a plumber to implement the plan (probably over 2 or 3 off-seasons).

    Is this something that homeowners do? Is it overkill? I don't want to just call yet another plumber and have him "ad-hoc" a bunch of changes. I would rather have a professionally prepared plan so that I can get a reasonably competent plumber to implement the consultant's recommendations.

  • angelotrivelli
    angelotrivelli Member Posts: 41

    I started this thread with concerns about radiator vent selections, but now with everyone's input and some background reading thanks to @DanHolohan's book I came to the realization that my whole system is WRONG.

    As far as I can tell it started life as a 2-pipe system, but over the years changes were made. When I list them all out, it seems almost comical. Literally everything is wrong:

    • Boiler is roughly 2x the btu/h capacity that I actually need, based on radiators (still computing exact EDR load).
    • No main vent, no F&T trap.
    • Copper "ACR" piping for ALL near-boiler piping, main and return. I see this stuff supposed to be for refrigeration?!
    • Somebody put vents on all radiators, probably because they removed main vent in basement
    • Radiator vents are in wrong location (at top) so they close early.
    • No steam trap at condensate output of radiators, just copper pipe, which eventually becomes iron somewhere before it reaches basement.
    • Main pipe is tilted such that water runs downhill towards boiler (not parallel flow), also not tilted enough.
    • Near boiler piping is nothing like installation manual specifies. Rider that feeds main is coming from middle of header, equalizer to hardford loop is not reachable for condensate that forms in main (it's on the wrong side). Condensate that comes DOWN from main will try to flow back into where the steam comes out.

    To make matters worse, the return line, where it goes back into boiler is showing REALLY bad corrosion. I am concerned that this 13 year old boiler is nearing end of life.

    Need some general advice on how to approach this as a long term project.

    My thinking is that I need to find a consultant who can re-design my system, specifying everything, so that a normal plumber can do it by just following directions.

    Every plumber (except one) that sees it says something horrifically wrong like "copper piping is the way to go", "all radiators need vents", "top vents are good". The last guy recommended putting the vent into the main, closest to the boiler. In the past, I just trusted them, but now it seems that practically no one knows how to do this stuff (even though they're "master plumbers"). Do I just call every plumber in the city? The ones on the "find-a-contractor" list in this site don't service the city (Philadelphia) or are too far away.

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