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newer wall furnace with one sided heat.

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needinformation
needinformation Member Posts: 9
in Radiant Heating

Hello, this is my first time on this forum,

My daughter is renting an older small apartment with a newer wall gas heater furnace.

The furnace is the type that has a large heat exchanger with a fan above. When the heat limit sensor reaches its limit the fan on top turns on and draws air from the room in across the heat exchanger and heated air out into the room. It is in the biggest room which is the living room, but it is not a real large room. Maybe about 14 x 10 ft.

The 4 inch exhaust on top of the furnace, consists of only one elbow up into the chimney.

I have one new CO detector and am buying a second for extra safety.

When the furnace turns on by the thermostat, the furnace gives nice radiant heat. When the fan  turns on and it takes at least 5 minutes before the limit switch turns on the fan. When the thermostat is on a higher setting,  I get a headache and slight nausea when the fan is pushing the heat into the room but not before the fan turns on. The CO detector does not alarm and others have not had a head ache, or nausea but do not like the smell and have felt uncomfortable with the fan blowing the heat.

The owner will not have it checked because it is a fairly new furnace.

My question is who should I call, what type of company and pay for thoroughly checking it.

Also hypothetically, if the fan limit switch was disconnected and the furnace used without a fan. Is that an option? Would the furnace turn on and off without a problem if it has no fan drawing in air over the heat exchanger? Is that safe? The basic knowledge that I have is there is another limit switch that is for a turning off if a high temperature is reached and there is also the thermostate on the wall that turns the furnance on and off. I wonder if the there is another device that monitors the heat turning on and off.

The heat is comfortable until the fan kicks on. It is a small apartment and the fan really does not push the heat anywhere. Thank you for any positive feedback on this issue. 

Comments

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 19,283

    hate to say this but with your symptoms I would strongly say do not run this unit.

    I don't know if this is propane or Natural gas but call the gas supplier or the fire dept and have it checked. Landloard is an idiot.

    I would not take any chances with this.

    needinformationmattmia2Grallert
  • needinformation
    needinformation Member Posts: 9

    I gave my daughte two decent electric heaters and but the furnace on 60 degrees. I agree with you. I am very worried. Today I am buying the second CO detector. I also told my daughter to look for another apartment. fortunately it is month to month.

  • needinformation
    needinformation Member Posts: 9

    It is a natural gas unit.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 19,283

    I would call the gas utility and tell them you have a smell. Tell them its coming from the heater and you don't know if its gas or not. They will respond promptly.

    You don't want CO.

    mattmia2needinformation
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 15,194
    edited December 3

    you would need a non-listed co monitor or the nighthawk with an led display to see any meaningful readings but the utility or the fire department can test for CO. listed co detectors with only alarm when it is pretty much about to kill you.

    Larry Weingartenneedinformation
  • needinformation
    needinformation Member Posts: 9
    edited December 3

    I called national fuel at 4:00 pm and they automatically made it into an emergency and actually sent a fire truck. they checked the furnace and told my daughter it checked out ok and maybe her father (me) is getting sick! I dont even know if they put the furnace on high and waited for 30 minutes. I am sure they did not becuase I rushed over and they were gone already. Obviously the CO readings are going to be higher if the furnace is run high for and hour.

    Now I read up just now on CO hypersensitivity and it states that older people and preganant women and infants can be more sensitive to mild levels of CO exsposure than healthy adults. Nausea and headache is considered mild exposure. For me it was a high level of mild exsposure becuase nausea for 30 minutes is serious and that is what I had.

    I been in construction my entire life and actually have installed variious furnaces so I am not some old senile retired guy who does not know anything. My daugher has a one week old infant so I am very concerned.

    Therefore I am telling my daughte to find a new place to live and to keep the furnace on low. It is on 55 degrees right now. The electric heaters will be used as winter comes.

    Perhaps there is a chimney problem. It is a second story house in the city so I can not check that from the roof.

    Therefore my question about disconnecting the fan is more important now than ever. The radiant heat seems to be Ok, but once that fan kicks on I can sense a problem with fumes.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 15,194
    edited December 3

    in most furnaces the blower pushes air in to the hx so if the hx is compromised it tends to push the products of combustion up the vent and can cause the flame to go out. a wall furnace may be pulling through the hx. it may also be backdrafting the vent.

    this type of alarm is not as good as some of the online only unlisted co monitors but it is distributed at hardware stores and home centers. it will store readings down to 11ppm though it will only display above 30 ppm because that is what the ul listing requires. you can look at the stored readings to see if you have low levels of co.

    https://www.kidde.com/products/carbon-monoxide-alarms/worry-free-living-area-carbon-monoxide-alarm-with-10-year-battery-backup-and-digital-display
    needinformation
  • needinformation
    needinformation Member Posts: 9
    edited December 3

    mattmia2 thanks for the info. If I have to I will purchase a monitor.

    Although the CO sensors do have a reading that you can check daily to see what the hightest level of CO is. I read a chart that it should be at 9 PPM but is acceptable up to 50 PPM. I will emphasize that my daughter is not turning the furnace on past 60 degrees and electric heat is being used. I am tempted to disconnect the fan so that the heat is only radiant instead of having the fan pushing it out causing fumes. This is going back to my original questions.

    I apologize for the complex nature of this. It seems like it's ridiculous, but getting a nasty headache and nausea is serious and now the unit was checked out as ok by national fuel and the fire department. I still insist that they did not have the furnace running long and it did not get real hot as was the condition when I got sick. In the mean time two other adults did not get sick. Most important there is a newborn who is of main concern. I had nausea for 30 minutes after the furnace was turned off.

    I hope my daughter moves soon. In the mean time the furnace is on very low and I gave her two nice electric heaters. Like I said I apologize for this mess. I needed to talk to somebody about this.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,708
    edited December 3

    @needinformation

    Forget UL approved CO Detectors. They will not alarm until 70PPM is exceeded for up to 4 hours!

    Search for Low Level CO Detectors. These will alert as low as 15 PPM.

    Do not run that furnace.

    GGrossneedinformation
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 1,014

    definitely don't run it with out the fan. That fan does two things, it distributes the warm air and keeps the heat exchanger from over heating and the furnace from short cycling.

    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver

    needinformation
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 15,194

    it could be backdrafted because of something else in some other apartment sucking air out of the building or something that is improperly common vented or numerous other things that aren't in that apartment. i would get something that can read low levels before concluding it is co and not some contaminant burning off the hx that you are sensitive/allergic to or something like that. there normally will be a lot of moisture associated with products of combustion of methane spilling.

    needinformation
  • needinformation
    needinformation Member Posts: 9

    Thank you all for the positive feedback. I purchased another CO detector but I will look into purchaseing a low CO monitor better for this problem. Although the Kidde worry-free CO alarm i purchased will monitor levels of CO daily. I just have to read up on this.

    I apprecieate the good sound information from comments. It kills me that the National fuel guy told my daughter that maybe your dad is getting sick and that is the problem not the furnace, after her turned on the furnace for 5 minutes and read his instruments.What a total jerk.

    The comments about a proper detector/monitor, back draft problem and posible problems with shared venting and the fan being neccessary for the limit controls to work properly is exactly what I needed to know, along with every other comment. thank you. This is a high quality forum.

    My daughter with a baby and the dad need to find a new apartment with a good high efficiency furnace.

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