steam system tour
Comments
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Two points:
1- Instead of rebuilding the crossover traps, replace them with Barnes & Jones Big Mouth Crossover traps. These will vent air from the mains much more quickly, and should reduce the boiler's running time.
2- The third floor radiator was probably replaced at some point. Notice the pipe extensions between the radiator and the valve, and between the radiator and the trap. The original was probably a Corto, and the present rad was a bit narrower.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting2 -
Thank you Frank.
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I just had a thought which just popped into my head. Should I go with 1/2" which is what is currently installed or should I step it up to 3/4" ?
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Stay with 1/2" if that's what's there now. Also, the mounting dimensions will be different so you'll need some pipe nipples.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Thank you. I'll have my plumber friend help me next summer.
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Nice system. With your care and upgrades, it will serve you well for years to come.
Your idea of installing a separate water heater is spot on. Depending on your utility provider, you might qualify to receive a hefty rebate with the hybrid water heater installation.
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So they do offer a $500 purchase rebate but you have to pull a permit and have it inspected and I don't want to deal with all of that so I'm just going to do it and not say anything.
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You're in southeast Ct.. Pulling a permit as a homeowner is not a burden. Especially with the five-hundred-dollar rebate. Some rebates in your area are as much as eight hundred dollars. Maybe reconsider? Pull the permit as the homeowner/installer. Follow the directions in the owner's manual. I know many who have and are very happy they did.
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I'll have to look more into it with my utility company which is Norwich Public Utilities
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Curious. How are the capsuls in these big mouths? Do they last longer than regular trap capsuls?
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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No issues so far.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
What i meant is: how do they differ from radiator trap capsules?
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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@guzzinerd When I had mine apart IIRC the capsule would spin, and the valve disk would also spin independently from the capsule. I did not try to remove the capsule, I assume it unscrews from the cap but not sure.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
I think it does. That's not a "capsule" or "cage unit" per se, it's an old-style trap element.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting1 -
I'm very familiar with NPU. As of last year, they have a very generous rebate. Go for it.
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That's the model I'm going with. And since it's only me living here 50 gallons will be more than enough capacity for a once a day shower and laundry once a week and occasionally running the dishwasher. I've talked to multiple people who have them and they are very pleased with them. Never run out of hot water and very efficient to run. The problem I have with the domestic coil is when the boiler isn't steaming and is at 180 for the hot water I do run out of hot water, water will be great for a few minutes then it gets lukewarm and then it takes another 10 or 15 minutes to get really good hot water again in the shower. However when she's steaming hot water is great. NPU is great to deal with. I only get electricity from them though. Where I'm at there's no natural gas city water or sewer.
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the hp water heaters fall back to electric if they think they need more demand.
you could also heat an electric tank or indirect with the tankless coil so it is storing water but only heating the boiler when the tank needs to be heated
another option is to bring the dhw through the tankless coil then to the electric/hp water heater but set the boiler to cold start so if it is running a heating cycle or still hot you heat the water before it gets to the dhw tank but you aren't running the boiler just to make dhw.
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I'm going to completely abandon the domestic coil, the house used to have a traditional hot water tank that lived in between the oil tank and boiler. I already have 10 gauge power to the spot where it would be installed. I think with me being here by myself, it would be very efficient running it either in energy saver or heat pump only mode. One of my friends his only costs him about $5 or $10 a month in electricity. I don't mind having the boiler as a cold start. I don't want to burn oil in the summertime just for hot water. Demand for hot water here isn't great at all. I would imagine in the winter time I would leave it in energy saver mode and then summertime switch to heat pump only. The slow recovery time of heat pump only mode wouldn't bother me at all in the summer time
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i don't know if they've fixed the firmware but there were models that were running the elements even in heat pump only mode if they thought they needed to recover faster.
my main suggestion was to run it through the tankless coil before the water heater but not control the boiler.
if the boiler is in a heat call or still hot the dhw gets preheated before the tank, if the boiler is cold the water heater does all the work.
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Personally since you have the domestic coil I'd pipe it so either could supply DHW. Reason being when the HP decides to have high tech issues you still can use the boiler for DHW.
A couple valves and a switch for warm / cold start.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
So maybe I can just wire the aquastat to a switch to the primary control on the burner
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I will also have a talk with my plumber buddy Adam when he and I do the boiler maintenance. I'll see what his suggestion would be in terms of having the coil for a backup if the HPWH decides to have issues
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Run the water heater as a standalone entity. This seems to be the best for you since the hot water demand is as it is.
You mention you have #10 wire ready for the water heater. That's most likely the size wire needed with a dedicated 30-amp breaker. Make sure it is a dedicated circuit. You will also need the condensate to discharge through a pump or gravity-fed to a drain.
You will discover what mode works best for you when you use this type of water heater. Energy, heat pump, or? It will be nice of you to post your results here when you are done.
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I've traced the 10/2 wire back to the panel and it is just dead ended inside of the panel so I'll pull out the 20 amp double pole breaker that used to feed the AC receptacle in the living room which never gets used (I have a 10K BTU window unit which is 120v now) and put in the appropriately sized breaker which is 30 amps. The 20 amp 240 volt receptacle in the living room that was for the air conditioner I've removed the receptacle and just put a blank cover plate over the box as well. I've already run a condensate line over to the sump pit with 3/4" PEX and I'm just going to use gravity to get it there. I've run it along the wet return for the steam system which never gets more than warm during an extended heat call. I think for me and my demand for hot water which is just a 10 to 15 minute shower once a day and load of laundry about once a week and running the dishwasher maybe once a week as well, running it in heat pump only mode or energy saver mode would be best for me. One of my friends who lives one town over and has eversource for electricity his only costs him about $5 or $10 a month in electricity. I think mine would be similar. My most expensive electric bill in the summertime is about $180 running a couple of window air conditioners upstairs set at 72° and I only run the one in the living room as needed.
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Drew up a quick piping diagram. Even though I'm on well water with a 32 gallon pressure tank, Rheem wants an expansion tank by the heater.
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