Tudor Vapor System with tall drop loop
I have a two pipe steam vapor system with these loops connecting the steam main to the dry return way close to the floor below the water level.
what is the function and is there any maintenance I should complete.
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All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
They allow condensate to pass from the steam main to the dry return, but block steam.
Assuming the pressure in the steam main doesn't get too high…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
Reviewed that about 6 times. The one diagram that this set does not have it labeled
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Jamie Hall- steam comes racing along the main and slams into the down turned 90…..as a dead end of sorts the will do what? Try to go down the steam pipe? And start to condense at the bottom of the loop? Given appropriate pressure on the steam, that would mean both of those white pipes would always hold water?
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if the air can't get out there is no steam going there.
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right
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i don't knw what it is intended to do but what will happen is nothing will happen other than the differential between the supply and return will push the water down in the supply side an amount equal to the pressure differential. if the pressure exceeds the height of that loop, steam will push in to the return until the pressure is equalized enough to not exceed the height of that loop. it will keep the differential small enough that the water can return to the boiler.
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In most systems like this there will be only one vent to the atmosphere and it will be close to that loop on the return side so if steam pushes through the loop it will close the vent and allow pressure to build in the return. the mains usually will have crossover traps to vent them in to the returns.
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As I thought it was mentioned in another thread that I saw that picture in, it appears the steam trap that is usually at the end of the main to let the air out of the main and into the dry return (to vent the main) as the steam pressure pushes against the air is missing, or was never there or simply not seen in that picture.
More pictures of the system may resolve the intent of how the system is piped.
If needed that loop may need to be flushed out if it becomes plugged up.
That loop keeps the steam out of the dry returns.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Slow down. Let us consider the situation at the end of a parallel flow main in a vapoor (or other low pressure steam) system. There will be a dry return next to it at a slightly lower elevation which may or may not slope the same way as the main (we won't worry about its slope for the moment.
And then let us suppose that the system has steamed long enough to come up to operating pressure — perhaps 3 or 4 ounces per square inch — but steam is only just starting down the mains.
As steam starts down the mains, condensate forms (probably a lot of it!) which flows down slope to the far end, where our tall loop is located and quite naturally drops into the tall loop. Eventually enough water gets in there so that the it fills both the side of the loop connected to the steam main and the side connected to the dry return. But… there is a little pressure in the steam main, and none in the dry return, so the water stands a little higher on the dry return side (at 4 ounces, about 7 inches) and so it overflows into the dry return and makes its way back to the boiler.
Neither steam nor air can get through the loop from the steam main to the dry return unless the pressure differential is great enough to force the water so far down on the steam side as to allow it to blow through to the dry return side.
What happens to the air in the steam main? Depends on the system. On many systems, that air is allowed to escape to the dry return through a crossover trap — a pretty ordinary radiator trap, but pipe above the steam main so it doesn't handle condensate at all. Very effective. In these systems, all the air — mains, risers, radiators, whatever — is released at or near the boiler through a main vent or main vent cluster on the dry return. In some systems — usually newer or modified — there will be a main vent at the end of the steam main instead. There still has to be the main vent cluster for the dry returns.
At a slight risk of confusing things, note that there is a variation where the steam main is parallel flow and the dry return follows it, and is thus counterflow. in that arrangement rther than there being a loop at the end of the steam main both the steam main and the dry return have drips (separate) which go to a wet return which carries the condensate back. The principle is very similar — the water in the dry return drip stands higher than that in the steam main drip. This arrangement, has a subtle trap for the unwary. The water in the steam main side stands at the water level in the boiler, or only slightly higher. The trap is when a new boiler is installed the water line may be below the elevation of the wet return at that point, and there will be no seal. In any system of this sort it is essential to match the water line of the new boiler to that of the original.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0
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