New Energy Kinetics Boiler Kettling

CTYankee · October 17

New Energy Kinetics EK-1 boiler/hot water heater installed in June. Up until a week or so ago, the system was called upon to provide domestic hot water only: all of our thermostats were turned to cooling mode. System ran fine, produced prodigious amounts of hot water, and was very quiet.

Heating season begins last week. We have thermostats in 3 heating zones calling for heat off and on to take the chill out of the early Fall mornings. We are now experiencing a phenomenon called kettling: sound of boiling water emanating from the boiler itself.

This sound is only heard when the oil burner is firing: once the demand for heat is satisfied, the burner shuts down and the noise immediately stops.

A few things to note:

-Its a 4 month old system

-It worked just fine until we started opening zone valves in the heating circuits.

-Noise starts about 30 seconds or so after burner firing begins.

-Water chemistry: we are on well water, although we don’t have a water softening system: never needed it. Out water test shows slighlty/moderately hard water. We do use a 1 micron whole house water filter.

The most popular answer I’ve encountered online in regard to this issue is: its scale buildup on the boiler wall. Not sure I am convinced that this is the culprit, given the system has only been in service for 4 months, and given that this problem did not exist prior to opening the heating circuit zone valves.

FWIW: I’ve never observed/heard the air vent bleeding any air from the system. There is just a single vent just above the main boiler return connection. I suspect air in the system may be a contributing factor but my contractor has dismissed this as a possible cause.

Contractor plans on doing an acid flush of boiler, per the manufacturer’s recommendation so we will be trying that next week. Given everything I’ve stated above, I have strong doubts that this cleaning will resolve the problem.

Any thought on what could be happening and possible remedies?

Steamhead · October 17

Check the burner's firing rate, also whether the correct type nozzle was installed. If that's a Carlin burner it should be a 60° hollow one.

EBEBRATT-Ed · October 18

Why would a 4 month old boiler need to be cleaned?

Make no sense.

I assume this was installed by an EK dealer and that it was set up properly. Did they bleed all the air out of the system??

CTYankee · October 18

Steamhead: Unit came from factory with the Carlin EZ-1 burner which I believe is set up .85 GPH nozzle. As I mentioned, before we opened zone valves for heating, the boiler ran perfectly when it was supplying domestic hot water.

CTYankee · October 18

EBEBRATT: I agree; it makes no sense. Yes unit was installed by EK dealer and I have to assume at this point that it was set up properly. I discussed the possibility of air in the system at length with the contractor and he dismisses this as a possible reason for the kettling. He insists that the system was bled properly.

hot_rod · October 18

is there an air purger on the piping?

I don’t recognize that black component with the air vent attached

Make sure the cap is loose on the vent

It takes heating and circulating the system for a few hours to drive all the air out. Seems it is related to the piping loops throughout the home?

CTYankee · October 18

HOT ROD: Yes, a Califfi air vent (hygroscopic no less) comes mounted on the boiler return manifold (the black thing) that is factory supplied by EK. Since it's hygroscopic, the vent can be loose or tight: cap has opening for air in either condition.

Yes, since this only started after we opened up the zone valves, the obvious/logical assumption (IMHO) would be that we have introduced either air or some other element that is either impeding flow or allowing localized overheating, thus creating steam.

hot_rod · October 18

The logo on that black air/ relief manifold looks like Thrush? I suspect the boiler is doing most of the air separation through that device since.

I don't see an air purger on the supply side, before the beautiful zone valves.

Kettling is usually a sound from an old scaled boiler, water on the boiler metal surface is flashing to steam under that layer of scale.

I think maybe you are just hearing some microbubble entrained air. How long has it been running? It should clear itself of air. Crank it up to 180 or so, if you can, that drives entrained air out quickly

It is a really nice piping job.

HVACNUT · October 18

What's that loop thats on the wall with its own circulator? Does that loop also have a zone valve? Does the SR501 energize the circulator, and close contacts to a thermostat connection on the Manager? Basically I'm asking if that seperate circulator runs while it's zone valve is closed.

CTYankee · October 18

HOT ROD: the black manifold is marked Energy Kinetics and I suspect acts like a standard Watts or Taco Air Scoop. Yes, the air vent you see in the picture is the only one in the system: it comes from factory this way.

Unit has been running since June with all zone valves closed. Starting using heating zones last week and this is when problem started. It's not all that cold here in CT right now so system does not run all that much. EK boilers are set to run hot: I believe 200 degrees F. I think you may have. nailed it: the air will need to work itself out over time: this makes perfect sense (to me at least, if not to my contractor).

I agree: very nice piping job: I was very impressed with the job and coincidently was planning on posting a short summary of the installation with pictures after I had fully tested the system this fall. This hiccup has put those plans on hold for the time being.

CTYankee · October 18

HVACNUT: that secondary loop is something I installed about 20 years ago. Flat plate heat exchanger supplies heat to glycol treated loop for a workshop. Pipes pass through unheated garage, hence the glycol. Zone 4 of the EK system feeds the boiler side of the this heat exchanger. This loop has worked like a champ from the day I installed it and allows me to work in my woodworking shop in comfort throughout the winter. The Taco unit on the side of the boiler controls the circulator in the glycol loop: it's energized when the EK controller calls for heat from zone 4. So when workshop TS calls for heat, both the EK zone 4 circulator and the glycol loop taco 007 are energized.

Roger · October 18

Thank you for all your comments. Sometimes flux and other contaminants can make their way back to the boiler and make it kettle as you describe. I think the acid flush will clear things up. I do see that it is a Press job, so that means it is likely something left from the system prior to install that flushed back when the heating zones opened. @CTYankee , do you know if they used the 8-Way boiler treatment that comes with the boiler? That will usually prevent kettling and keep the boiler cleaner.

Best,

Roger

Steamhead · October 18

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1868340#Comment_1868340

We still need to check it. In the first two pics above, we can see a nozzle container sitting on top of the boiler. The end cap on it is blue- which is the color Delavan used for solid nozzles. Hollow nozzle containers have red end caps.

CTYankee · October 19

Checked the nozzle that was in that plastic case on top of the boiler. This was the original nozzle that was changed out a few days after initial system commissioning due to burner lock-out issue. The nozzle indicates 60 degrees and .65 GPH, so I misspoke above. Not sure how to distinguish a solid nozzle: this nozzle is not smooth: looks has sort of a rough surface: perhaps it atomizes through this???

Steamhead · October 19

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1868445#Comment_1868445

That would be a 0.65x60. The letter following denotes the spray pattern: A for hollow, B for solid, W for in-between.

The installation manual is here:

https://energykinetics.com/wp-content/documents/system2000/installer-manual-ek1-ek2-oil.pdf

On page 11 of the pdf, it shows that your boiler with the Carlin burner uses hollow nozzles. The containers for Delavan hollow nozzles have red caps, rather than blue ones as shown in your pics. Recheck what's actually installed in the burner. If it's not a Delavan A, replace it with an A and retune it.

The 0.65 nozzle in that burner runs at 130 PSI, for a firing rate of 0.74 GPH. This is by design.

CTYankee · October 19

Steamhead: double checked: it's got a B marked on it, so it's apparently solid. So would wrong nozzle result in hotter or more concentrated flame that could cause the kettling? I wonder how the system worked with no problem prior to opening of the heating zone valves for the season? Same nozzle in use during both scenarios.

Robert O'Brien · October 19

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1868369#Comment_1868369

This!

HVACNUT · October 19

I checked my manual to see about chimney venting when the burner is down fired to a .65 nozzle.

Screenshot_20251019_160900_Samsung Notes.jpg

I know I've been using a .75 60°A with the EZ-1 burner on the EK-1, so maybe I need a new manual.

Anyway, my manual states sidewall venting only at that firing rate. How is your boiler vented, @CTYankee?

CTYankee · October 19

The current plan is to go with the manufacturers recommendation and clean the system. Finger crossed.

Stay tuned for more exciting developments!

A sincere thanks to all the pros that have shared their knowledge to help a humble home-owner: much appreciated!

Steamhead · October 20

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1868460#Comment_1868460

That's wrong. Change it to a 60° A and retune the burner. If that solves the problem, you don't need to do any more.

Robertw · October 20

@Steamhead is correct. 60° A is the proper nozzle with 130 psi pump pressure.

@CTYankee Wondering if you could dm me a wider shot of the install as we have some questions regarding the plate exchanger location, and that loop circ on the wall behind the boiler.

Its possible some scale has moved around the system if you have cast iron free standing radiators. I cant see a dirt mag in your pictures. Have the tech thats doing the flush call me in tech support and we can go over the problem.

New Energy Kinetics Boiler Kettling

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