American Standard Aqua Seal Faucet
Hello all, I am writing this post to see if any can advise and provide some guidance.
Recently one of our American standard faucet started to leak. After a few calls we had a few plumbers stop by and they all had different opinions and suggestions.
Two plumbers suggested that it would be better to replace the old faucet and install new ones. One even went as far as stating that the faucet are old and locating parts would be hard and not worth the time. In addition if the parts were found and replaced, rhe fix wont last and the leak would return in matters of days weeks. They both provided quotes suggesting delta faucet at a price cost for the work.
Another plumber stated that they were worth keeping but the part would take some time to order. He was going to use a conversion kit to fix the faucet but it would take some time to order the kit. The quote was close to the delta replacement of the first two plumbers.
The last plumber arrived and explained that these are American Standard aqua seal. The part that are hard to find are the top hat but luckily he has a few. Shortly after the work was done and he was done.
Two Weeks later the leak is back. My questions
- Was the two plumbers from the start telling the truth. These faucet should be replaced rather than fixed? If so what faucet would anyone recommend? I noticed delta cartridges are plastic.
- Should have the plumber replaced more parts other than the washer top hat? Or are these faucet done?
- I noticed some parts can be purchased from Amazon, what parts to buy if I was to try fixing this my self. Is there a conversion kit like the 3rd plumber mentioned (even do I was not able to find it).
- I am guessing the diverter is the same story of just replacing parts.
- Any Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
Comments
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Where is it leaking? Is it dripping from the spout or is the packing/o-ring around the steam leaking? Anyone with a little experience should know where to get parts for it. Once the parts are replaced properly it should be good for another 5 years to couple decades depending on your water and usage.
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in most cases you probably can just regasket it without replacing the whole cartridge or seat.
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It is always wise to replace the complete stems and the seats when you rebuild old faucets. Then every seal is new.
That is a nice design stem and seal, properly rebuilt it should work fine.
Home Depot has the kits also. Available without new handles.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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Hi, As @hot_rod says, replace the seat. Also, a little teflon or dope on the seat threads will help insure no drips.
Yours, Larry
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I did try my local hardware store and they did not have anything for this model according to them.
The leak is coming from the hot water knob when fully closed. I also get water coming from the steam of the diverter when its set for the spout but when its set for the top no leak.
5 years would be ideal !!!!
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Not a bad price, they also have the 3 set. Thank you.
Quick question, for the brass Bibb what tool would I need to remove the old one and install the new one?
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Ye I saw that homedepo has the kit but was unsure if it was the correct model since I have the 3 faucet set.
Was planning to take a gamble on the homedepo set or the amazon one but the supply house has the full set for the 3 faucet. Will order from them thank you.
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THe Teflon, on what part would you put it on?
The brass Bibb or the steam?
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a faucet seat tool is ideal, sometimes an EZ out type if the hex is damaged
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
2 -
the dope/tape goes on the threads of the seat
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If they replaced the cartridge, make sure it is the same size as the old cartridge. I don't know that produce specifically but they usually had different length stems for different trim packages. Also put a little teflon pipe dope or anti seize on the threads of the bonnet and the broach of the stem so it doesn't fuse together for the next time it needs service. People still have lots of tub and shower valves of similar design that are 80 or 100 years old that still work fine with occasional maintenance.
It is also possible that some part of the escutcheon or extension tube isn't adjusted right so the knob bottoms on that before closing the valve fully.
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thank you just order one from Amazon.
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Got it. Ill add Teflon on the seat.
Thank you
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Will double check and will do a visual inspection of what I order and whats installed prior to installing thank you.
"Also put a little teflon pipe dope or anti seize on the threads of the bonnet and the broach of the stem so it doesn't fuse together for the next time it needs service."
Sorry for the noob question but Teflon on what part? On the cartridge and bonnet and broach?
IIs Teflon tape good enough?
It is also possible that some part of the escutcheon or extension tube isn't adjusted right so the knob bottoms on that before closing the valve fully.
Do you recommend tightening everything a bit before replacing it?
IIs It normal for the faucet to have the gap when closed (this is how they have always been hence the green rust).
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I generally just replace the top hat and the seat if needed. As long as the top hat doesn't leak into the stem, the brass parts should be fine.
The nice thing about the AquaSeal is it was designed to fit existing A-S washer-type faucets from about 1955 on. My house had those and I updated them decades ago, and I've only had to replace a couple top hats since then.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting2 -
As you can see by the time you have already spent on this and ordering parts and hoping they are the right parts and that is before doing any work that the average plumber would say rip it out and replace it. And they are not wrong. When you are done how much money will you have spent on parts and shipping, and it may not be a sure thing and you still will have a shower valve without any scald protection.
Not criticizing I am not saying your or anyone else is wrong for trying to save it and if it works its a win.
Just trying to show there are two ways to look at a problem and someone who is in business and HAS to make money. If he doesn't make money he's out of business.
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Its not like this is some rare and unusual valve. American Standard designed these to be repaired almost indefinitely because they are installed where repairing the tile to install a new valve would be a major operation. The American Standard parts book is out there and pretty easy to find. If you can't match up the parts for this, that would be no different than not being able to connect to an existing galvanized pipe and suggesting it all needs to be replaced because you don't know how to work with it.
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is the "top hat" what they call the resilient seal? Does it also seal the stem on the sides or is there an o-ring on the cartridge?
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I think so. Been a while since I've had one apart, but the top hat does seal both the steam and the outside diameter of the cartridge.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
It is possible that the replacement cartridge you got is not manufactured correctly too. with the combination of covid shortages and moving manufacturing to china there are a lot of incorrectly made parts out there.
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Make sense that part of the aspect, but at the same time I had other work bundle into repairing two leaking faucet A/S Aqua seal and A/S Renu + ading two valve in the house (one of them being the main water line).
I was not looking for a handout I was looking for a honest plumber that I can continue doing business since the house needs additional repairs.
I understand the business aspect of it.
Thank you.
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Yah I was reading that as well. On a different forum someone mentioned that there is a different cartridge that has standard orings and washer combination instead of a top hat that is better but I was unable to locate just in case.
I'll order more top hat just incase.
Thank you
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Might be a stupid question but....
- Aesthetically ..... is there rings / sleave extension to fully cover the threads? Cant find any if there are. Or is there any way to move the threads to fit better?
- Just noticed the kit that arrived the knobs are smaller (should this be a concerned)?
- Took off the knob and wiggle the cartridge while shutting off the water and it stopped dripping. Could this mean there is something loose? Should have free time this weekend (unless kids have practice these week ).
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I think the sleeve threads on different amounts to account for different wall thicknesses/rough in depths. Does the sleeve hold the escutcheon on or does the escutcheon just slide over the sleeve to cover the hole in the wall? I think there might be different lengths of sleeves available
If you put the knob on without the screw and turn it a bit toward closed does it stop dripping? when you turn it off with the knob screwed on does it feel like it is still tightening against something soft or does it feel like it is bottoming metal to metal and stops abruptly? It looks like the stem might be too short for the disc to seal tightly to the seat.
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The "star" shaped end of the shaft the the knob fits on is the broach.
You should use anti seize or teflon pipe dope on the threads and on the broach and screw to form a barrier so the metal doesn't fuse together.
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That faucet was roughed in too far out. I know they make deep rough extensions, never seen a shallow rough fix.
A set of faucet sockets is nice to use to prevent damaging the brass assembly nut.
The correct tools in the correct hands should make that a fairly simple 30 minute task.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Here is an internal faucet parts catalog, you can get part numbers to search for from here
somewhere out there is an american standard parts diagram book
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Looks like that is an american standard heritage faucet and there are 2 sleeve lengths
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I bought a set of those shower valve sockets from HD. I am sure the same China stuff HF sells and they were worthless. Sloppy fit.
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On those the nut is far enough out that you can use an open end wrench or good adjustable wrench.
The shower valve sockets were never really meant to be a great fit, they were meant to be cheap and close enough. If you really want a good socket, buy a 6 pt deep well socket. That retainer nut should be just snug, it shouldn't really be cranked down, it is hollow so it can break if you really wrench on it.
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the sleave holds the escutcheon on if i dont screw on the sleave all the way the escutcheon has play to move front and back.
When i turn it with the knob on without screwing it in it feels like its pushing on the rubber part not the metal. Is it sopost to feel metal on metal?
You should use anti seize or teflon pipe dope on the threads and on the broach and screw to form a barrier so the metal doesn't fuse together.
Will do. Just order the lubricant. Thank you.
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Wow, you are great!!!
Thank You amillion times. Will order the sleeves extension.
I will see if i can polish the old knobs and make them look new if not I will order the new ones.
TThank You once again.
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It should not be metal to metal, it should stop as it compresses the resilient "top hat" seal. It looks like there are long stem cartridges for it, you may need those.
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How would I know if need the long stem?
Originally it had the short stem.
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it had the short stem when you got it, you don't know what it had originally, right?
if the handle bottoms on the trim or the bonnet before the seal seals then you need the long stem.
take a look at the seat, both feel it and look at it with a light or try to take a picture of it. usually the seat doesn't get damaged unless it was left with a big leak for a long time but it could be part of the problem.
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those AmStd faucets had a nice soft close to them, those top hat washers were softer then a flat disc type
you should not need to force them off, two finger close
Old brass gets brittle and can chip off the seat face. That is why a resurfacing tool rarely works on old brass seats, they keep chipping away
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0
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