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Radiator conversions in Canada?

EricPeterson
EricPeterson Member Posts: 273
in THE MAIN WALL

I spotted these attached to radiators in an AirBNB in Quebec City, I would guess they are some kind of electric heaters for water contained in the radiators.

Anyone know anything more about them?

Curious,
Eric Peterson

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Comments

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,726

    I’ve not seen in the wild but here’s link to company.
    https://ecoradinc.com

    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,104

    right on the label, ecorad.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,104

    interesting names for radiators that were made by the millions with other names, mostly by arco

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,728

    Looks like an electric retrofit for Cast Iron radiators, maybe oil in them so freezing is not an issue.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,509

    Wonder if that is some type of factory supplied cable? Hope it isn't Romex. I suppose down low it shouldn't get overheated, but I don't like the looks of that.

    he has a bunch of u tube videos. They refurbish rads. You can get them with the electric element only or use electric element and a HW boiler or boiler only.

    Says with electric you need 1 watt per cubic foot of room volume. I guess that is their heat loss calculation.

    PC7060
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,728

    No oil just water and antifreeze.

    image.png
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,104
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1865259#Comment_1865259

    looks like big zip cord. hope it is at least silicone or neoprene

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,104
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1865266#Comment_1865266

    so not just the 3 conductor nm can get cut by the cable clamp because of its irregular shape that has corners the clamp can concentrate force on.

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,728
    edited September 18

    I'm going for the 347 VAC version. Oops MND90 is only good for 300VAC.

    EDIT: Switching the Neutral… Brilliant !!!

    image.png
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,104

    was this auto translated from french?

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,728
    edited September 18
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1865273#Comment_1865273

    Maybe but not by me, right from their Web site.

    https://ecoradinc.com/ressources/?section=guides

    https://ecoradinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/EcoRad_Installation_Instructions_Electric-Radiator.pdf

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,343

    An electric resistance heater by any other name… will still use a lot of electricity!

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    mattmia2EBEBRATT-Ed
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,509

    @Jamie Hall But it's "green energy" and 100% efficient according to their U tube video. Still electric heat. But they have cheap electricity from Hydro in Canada.

    With regard to that cable I have never heard of "NMD" I think this is a Canadian spec.

    One difference between Canada and the US is that our Romex since the 80s the wire inside is "THHN" even though the wire itself is good for 90 deg C it is not marked as such and The NEC does not allow it to be used as such so it limits the cable temp to 60C.

    So #12 is limited to 20 amps and #14 to 15 amps etc.

    Why does this matter?

    Many electricians (including me) in the past have wired a 2 1/2 ton condensing unit where the MCA (minimum circuit amps) is 20 or under and the condensing unit calls for a 25 amp breaker and have used #12 Romex to go from the panel to the outdoor disconnect.

    This is no longer allowed in the US with Romex

    Over fusing is only allowed for motor circuits and AC units and has been done forever with no issue because motors and AC units have thermal protection to protect the circuit.

    Even though you can legally oversize the breaker compared to the typical wire size (#12 on a 20 amp) now you can only put #12 on a 25- or 30-amp breaker if the unit nameplate allows and you can only do it if the branch circuit is THHN and not Romex.

    However, the Canadien Code allows Romex to be used at its rated temp of 90C so it can be over fused.

    Some have petitioned the NEC to get rid of the stupid requirement of limiting our 90C Romex to 60C but the wheels turn very slowly

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,104

    I haven't looked at the current code because last I was looking Michigan was still using the 2015 code so it may have changed int he new version, but the 90 c rating is allowed to be used in some cases when derating like when derating cables in bundles.

    I'd have to look at the code again, but I remember the upshot was that the like 20 pieces of romex all shoved in the joist bay that is the only one that goes past the stairs to the basement from the side of the house with the panelboard to the side of the house with the kitchen and laundry room that doesn't have hard ceiling over it, i figured from one rule to another rule to another rule that the net effect of the derating and the exceptions was that it was allowed.

    The 15a for 14 awg, 20a for 12 awg and 30a for 10 awg is a declaration in a rule. Even the 60c rating allows a higher ampacity.

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