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Electric Steam Boiler

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,470
in THE MAIN WALL

Newly installed 240 volt, 15kw steam boiler for a customer's steam shower. The unit starts steaming in about 2 minutes and reaches a 120F setpoint after about 15-20 minutes. Both legs of the incoming power draw 60 amps which is what it's rated at.

The owner is not happy because you can't really see much steam. His old unit produced copious amounts. The manufacturer - one that I have been dealing with for more than 20 years - says that steam is invisible and there is a lack of "cloud condensing nuclei", i.e. small dust particles that allows the steam to condense and that after awhile, when the tank develops mineral deposits, the steam will pick up the minerals and there will be more visible steam.

I have no doubt that the system is steaming as you can hear it rushing out of the steam head in the shower, but you just can't see that much of it and the owner wants his money back.

Anyone have thoughts or experiences with this? Thanks!

0-31.jpg
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab

Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,194

    Can they stay in the shower for a long period when it runs? If not it must be steam making the room hot.
    Put some food coloring in the steamer😉maybe then they will see the steam.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,015

    Have him stick his hand in it maybe that will prove it to him. If both legs are drawing about 60 a its going full tilt so it would seem to me it is doing its rated output.

    Did they have the same size generator before?

    Did anything else change except for the new generator?

  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,872

    Hi, Can you feed it with hard or mineral water? Add epsom salts 🤪?

    Yours, Larry

    GGross
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,132

    try shoving a piece of larger diameter pipe in the outlet and see if it cools some in that pipe and you get your water vapor. does it have a way to modulate the power? steam is invisible. a mixture of cooler water vapor and steam is visible…

  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,470

    @EBEBRATT-Ed He had the same, exact steam generator before; installed in 2001 and it made plenty of visible steam.

    One of the tech's. said to pulverize calcium chloride tablets and drop them in the tank to make the steam visible, but this is a temporary fix as it wears off.

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • winnie
    winnie Member Posts: 42

    Back when, Princeton University built a new library. Modern lighting, climate control, the works. During a tour, one of the trustees complained that 'It doesn't smell like a library.' The librarian leading the tour answered 'That, sir, is the smell of books decaying.'

    It sounds like the visible steam is a result of the mineral deposits that come from heating and boiling impure water. These same mineral deposits build up and destroy the boiler. Your customer is complaining that they don't see signs of the boiler destroying itself.

    GGrossIntplm.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,802

    I would ask the client to restate his complaint. Then ask why is it so important to see the steam. Is he not getting the same results other than visually? Then ask if he trusts Google's AI thing.

    Screenshot_20250612_182442_Samsung Internet.jpg

    His money back for the boiler (if you can return it), and he'll pay the labor for removal, right?

    Intplm.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,132

    i don't trust google's ai thing… really annoying, i have to scroll past it every single time to get to the real results.

    GGross
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,802
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1857836#Comment_1857836

    Except this time I guess.

    9326yssh
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,132
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1857953#Comment_1857953

    what do you mean? the grammar of that post is correct. the science not so much.

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,656

    @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

    When you replaced the unit, was there a fragrance injector? Was it removed? Maybe adding one will give the steam something to latch onto, making it "visible"? Otherwise, the very good explainations above seem right on target.

  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,470

    @Intplm. No there was no fragrance add on and I don’t think he wants one.

    Even though the company has offered him his money back, he’s willing to wait and see if his steam will appear.

    I’ve found similar complaints from customers with different manufacturers of steam boilers and I don’t think he wants to spend thousands of dollars to find that the same thing happens.

    One said, “Being roughly $10,000 into Mr. Steam at this point I am hesitant to move to another brand. And 2 Mr. Steam installations worked just as we wanted them to in the past. Mysteriously, on 3 occasions in the roughly 4 years that we've been fussing with these units here it magically worked perfectly and filled the room with visible vapor, just as we wanted. No idea why it did this, no idea how to recreate it.”

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,132

    start out with the room colder and more humid so it falls below the dewpoint

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