Single Pipe Steam Boiler Replacement & Piping (Unusual header?) Advice for Amateur
Hi everyone,
I moved into a Rochester, NY 2600sqft 1910 home in Fall ’21 with a ’96 Burnham IN-7 feeding a single pipe steam heat system. It has been my first experience with steam and the first few weeks with it were frankly awful. After coming across this forum and reading “So you got steam heat…” and “TLAOSH Revisited,” I added main line vents (“Big Mouths”), insulated the mains, lowered the p-trol to 0.5psi in/1.5psi out, properly pitched the radiators and fully opened the valves, repaired/replaced/fine-tuned radiator vents, etc. and since then it has been mostly quiet, all the radiators heat evenly, and I have grown deeply attached to the system and its comfort - coming home every evening during our long cold winters feels like getting hugged by warmth. Sadly, this winter, I noticed needing to progressively add a lot more water to the boiler (used to require once weekly) and eventually found the source: several sizeable holes in the boiler above the water line. I want to stick with steam and replace the boiler, but expertise in western (or "upstate" if you're from the big city) NY appears limited.
Question #1 - I have a total radiator EDR of 424 (most are ornate column radiators) so the 210k BTU in Burnham IN-7 (rated for 542 sq feet) is oversized. I was told in several estimates to just stick with ~200k BTU because I don't have symptoms of being oversized (only ever cycles on pressure on a cold start or if it needs to satisfy a t-stat more than 2 degrees lower than target), but it seems like a ~175k (~454 sq ft) would be more reasonably sized? It’s currently vented horizontally through an exterior chimney (the flue is a mess) at ground level into a Field Controls power vent that, like the boiler, dates back to '96 and is quite loud. Thoughts on replacing with a Burnham SteamMax STMX175N-RH-PA, using the same ducting & power vent (would clean or replace) configuration?
Question #2 – I don’t understand my piping very well. Attaching pictures; ignore the ineffectual prior homeowner duct taped insulation (replaced with fiberglass).
There are two 32” high 2” boiler risers going into a 3” header which feeds a parallel 2.5” straight short 24’ main line #1 (M1, 4 rads), and a parallel 2.5” D-shaped long 53’ main line #2 (M2, 6 rads) which reduces to 2” halfway. There is a capped nipple coming off a tee that I presume was from an old hookup. The equalizer (E) is 1.5". The east end of the header splits into two countercurrent 1.5” lines each feeding one riser/radiator (CC1 is a 2nd floor bedroom, CC2 is the 1st floor kitchen). Both parallel mains end into a 1-1/4” dry return and I put the main line vents on antlers coming off the only port I could find at the very end. I’ve noticed the last riser on main line #2 gets steam by filling backwards from main line #1 travelling through the dry return (the long main takes twice as long as the short one to fill), but I haven’t noticed any hammering or other issues from it.
Is this near-boiler piping correct-ish? I don't seem to have any symptoms of wet steam, but I understand "it seems to work OK so reuse it" is often incorrect. I can’t seem to find any examples of a header quite like mine with two parallel mains and a counterflow main. The estimates I’ve gotten have recommended reusing the header and otherwise using the same near-boiler piping configuration for the STMX175.
Any comments/concerns re: the other piping, like the seemingly odd way to the two parallel mains come together, and how main #2 backfills?
Thanks very much for your help and for the helpful community you’ve built; it has been an invaluable resources for a budding/amateur steam aficionado like myself. Please don't hesitate to point out any errors in my understanding (I'm a physician so my day job is little help, except that servicing a century old steam system feels eerily similar to caring for a cranky centenarian patient).
Ben G.
Comments
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The near boiler piping is very wrong. it might happen to work ok now but it should be done correctly with the new boiler.
The header should be in the order of:
risers from boiler
risers from header to mains
equalizer
The header and risers from boiler size should be at minimum the size specified in the manual
Each main should connect separately to the header. If a main is counterflow it needs a drip down to below the water line before it connects to the header. each drip needs to have its own return connection below the water line.
The header shouldn't reduce in size on the horizontal so it doesn't trap water.
Run away from anyone that says to put in a boiler bigger than the connected edr. The nameplate edr has an extra 30% pickup factor subtracted from it so it is probably oversized a bit even if it matches the nameplate. Do not use anyone that suggests you should go bigger than the connected edr beyond what is the closest size.
If you have a main that is filling from a return, you have to figure out why that is possible, most likely returns from different mains that are connected above the water line. The returns from different mains must connect together below the water line. The most common reason for this is that a connection that was below the water line became above the water line when a boiler with a lower water line was installed. Also possible that whoever installed that boiler didn't understand why returns at the boiler needed to drop below the water line before connecting. The steam from the other main will come in to the main at the vent and close it, preventing the main from venting properly. It will eventually vent through the radiators but it will be slow to heat.
Your near boiler piping looks like they just hooked up whatever was closest wherever they could and didn't know what they are doing.
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If it was me I'd replace the boiler myself, others on this site have, and I believe they are glad they did. It seems your contractors only want to do a mediocre job. Probably the hardest part is getting the new boiler into the basement. Although it actually seems that the hardest part is for some contractors to do a good installation job.
If you prefer to not do the work yourself, I guess keep getting estimates until you get one you like without a lot of coaching. Has any contractor measured the radiators ?
I'd match the boiler (Square Feet) to the EDR. (Assuming the EDR survey is accurate) As an example, my boiler could run for hours (if needed) and the pressure never gets to 2 Inches of water column (0.072 PSIG). It is slightly undersized, yet heats the house just fine. No extra pressure during a recovery from a setback.
Your near boiler piping is not correct. So it should be corrected, a new boiler install is the perfect time to get it done.
I would not reward Burnham with another purchase. Maybe 29 years is good run for a Burnham. I believe my old boiler is over 50.
The drips at the end of the mains should be individual pipes until well under the boiler's water line then connected into the wet return, to isolate each main from the other.
Since you are using Big Mouths, run the longer main with minimal or no vent restriction, a custom orifice can be easily made from a pipe plug and added the threaded vent of the Big Mouth on the shorter main. This way the steam gets to the end of each main at about the same time.
I'd probably get the chimney repaired / relined for quiet boiler operation and maybe change the orientation of the boiler to minimize the flew pipe length.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
Are you power venting into the chimney?
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I don't know what the check valves at the ends of the mains are unless those are strainers.
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The chimney is exterior ~40' in height with two flues, one for the fireplace (clay tile lined, defunct with a slab of stone on top, plan is to crown/cap it and install a gas-fired coal basket in the original antique cast iron inset), and a smaller flue that appears to be unlined .The vent pipe goes horizontally/90deg through the smaller flue and out the side of the chimney a foot above ground level into a Field Controls SWG II-5 . My chimney guy said he was not optimistic about getting a liner >5.5" down successfully, but won't know until he pulls the stone off next month. Our preference is to atmospheric venting pending his top-down camera inspection and an estimate to see if an appropriately sized liner is possible and falls in budget.
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Thanks very much, it definitely sounds like there is enough wrong that a formal consultation with an expert is needed.
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Thanks very much for your thoughtful and detailed advice.
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Thanks very much for your thoughtful and detailed advice. I'm just handy enough to be dangerous, but with coaching/consultation it may be possible, and seems to be the only hope to rescue my system. I've gotten quotes from every local steam "expert" which are all prohibitively expensive (I'd be happy to pay for quality work…) to simply replace the boiler with a minimal change in piping.
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I believe member @KarlW also lives in the Rochester area. He may have knowledge of a local contractor that worked out for him. You could PM him and see if he has any advice that will help you.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
Looks like they tapped into a pre existing header.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
So I have a solution for you to use in order to get proper estimates for your new boiler
On the left of the yellow line is what might have been there and why there is a capped off horizontal pipe on the header. On the right of the yellow line is an illustration of a replacement boiler with a drop header using both 2" risers from a boiler that has about 170,000 BTU Input with about 445 SqFt Net Steam Rating
The drop header will offer enough room to connect all 4 risers from the basement ceiling to the header with proper drainage to avoid noisy operation and promote proper condensate drainage to the equalizer.
Take note that the old original water line may have been about 20" higher on the original coal fired boiler that was there before your current boiler. The fact that there was so much wrong with the existing system when your first moved in tells us that the installer of that boiler may not have read TLAOS, and may be a contributing factor in the folks you purchased that home from to move out in the first place.
You now have a chance to make that system eve better!!!
Crown Boiler has a nice diagram with pipe sizes for your installer to use when designing your new system
This diagram shows only one main riser. your installer will need to modify in order ot accommodate the 4 risers you have.Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Here is the illustration from Document 850105U.PDF above modified for 4 main takeoffs
I reversed the equalizer to install it on the opposite side and added 3 more main takeoffs. Your boiler installer should be able to follow this diagram. Also I find it easier to place the boiler in position and install the vent connector pipe to the vent exhaust location (chimney of power vent) first. This way you don't end up placing pipes in the way of proper venting.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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@109A_5 Thanks for the callout. I responded to OP's message and gave him who I use a mechanic. He's a young (for steam) guy in his late 20s/early 30s, but unlike everyone else I've worked with here in Rochester, he understands that steam is different than water.
That said, as to a new boiler, I think most local companies can install it properly. The problem around here isn't workmanship, it's knowledge of how steam is different than water. As long as OP holds the contractor to the diagram in the boiler manual, they should be able to install it properly.
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These pictures were from soon after moving in in 2021 when I was even more green than I am now. I had just recently removed the pre-existing too small/non-functioning Dole vents and replaced them with overly long antlers (since the only available tap was so close to the end) including a strainer before the big mouth vents.
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Is it as simple as dropping the horizontal connection between the two mains to be below the water line? If so, I can easily do that myself.
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Yes, BUT, not just below the WL. Drop them to the level of the wet return and then go back to the boiler.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Another note; if you are moving those drops you might want to be aware of the required working distance in front of a CB panel.
Working space is 30" wide, 36" back from front of panel. This space should extend from floor to ceiling.
Your PVC drain line is already encroaching on the working space.
The footprint of the panel should be clear to the floor.
Now common sense dictates that you are not going to run any piping out the bottom of the panel to the story below the basement.
But the standing space for the electrician (30" X 36") is actually a fall back area in the event of electric arc or shock. ( I have needed this space several times for that reason).
So if you could re-pipe this such that your pipe is under the PVC and almost against the wall it would be a practical solution for safety, although technically not within code requirements.
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I think I would bring the drip from the Right hand main in the picture over (heading left) next to the drip of the Left hand Main then both over to the wall to the Left of the electrical panel (up high) then both down the wall to the wet return pipe level. The existing horizontal wet return is extended around the corner under the the electrical panel and the vertical PVC pipe, then connected to the two drips. So as @JUGHNE mentioned the electrical service panel and its access is not blocked. The 45 degree sloping part has been removed.
Additionally install valve(s) so you can flush out the wet return.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
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@mattmia2 I don't think the panel was done in the 80's. I see what looks like an inspection sticker on the adjacent junction box, (not sure the sticker would last that long) and the colors of the non-metallic sheathed cable is newer than the 80's, maybe 2001 and later.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
colored romex became a thing after the current rules about working space. can't really see how it would have passed an inspection. they spliced everything in a big nema box, they could have moved it someplace that was legal.
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IMO inspectors are an odd lot. Yeah never know what they don't care about or simply overlook and the absolute nonsense they are crazy about. There may be an exemption in this case or other mitigating circumstances.
So reworking the main drips improves a few issues, Win-Win in my book.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Looking in my trusty 1965 NEC book from trade school;
Article 110-16 does require working spaces of 30" side to side and 36" back from the front.
That panel and plywood looks much newer than 1965.
For those of you familiar with the current NEC book, this one has 435 pages, is 7 1/2" X 5". Cost is $1.00.
I also have the 1956 NEC, it has 375 pages, is 7" X 5" and was probably free as "Allen Bradley" and "Bulldog" promotional stickers are affixed to the cover.
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Were there exceptions or was it just like the type s fuse rule that wasn't enforced until the 70's or so? Did it include the area below back then? What was the clearance in front?
My parents' house was built in 1957, the original fuse box was over the end of a laundry tub that was about 18" from the wall. It was replace with a breaker panel in about 1986. The new breaker panel was inspected and approved. It was also about half above the laundry tub.
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I recall being called out in the 80's for working space.
It was a new panel install that had a horizontal drain line about a foot below the new install.
The inspector pointed out the invasion of the pipe. I pointed out that we are in a basement 10' below grade and would not be running any pipe to the non existent lower floor. He did concede to common sense but just wanted to educate me that the upper and lower footprint of the panel box needed to have a clear shot to the finished ceiling and down to the floor.
In your parents house the inspector may have allowed some "Grandfather" grace for this installation because that is where the original panel was located.
Now if this OP runs piping close to the wall just under the PVC drain and such that an electrician would not have his body against the grounded pipe I would feel comfortable sticking my hand in the hot box.
We all would probably agree that a "real estate house inspector" would probably not point out the violation. There are plenty of other issues they would miss.
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One of the most common violations of working space is a transformer sitting on the floor with a panel on the wall behind it.
As I recall the working space has been in the code a long time as @jughne pointed out. But from my memory it wasn't until the 80s or so that they really started enforcing it.
A lot of older panels wouldn't pass inspection now for that reason.
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