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why "lime scale remover" for fireside cleaning?

Nom_Deplume
Nom_Deplume Member Posts: 94
in THE MAIN WALL
The manual for our boiler (HTP Elite FT) suggests using a "lime scale remover" during fireside cleaning. I assume they mean something like CLR or Rydlyme.

My question is, why? Combustion produces water, but it isn't hard water! It also produces stranger things, namely coffee grounds; but CLR/Rydlyme don't dissolve coffee grounds, they have to be vacuumed out. So what's the purpose of lime scale remover?

Incidentally, the so-called "stainless" in our boiler has deep black stains that don't come off with scrubbing or CLR.

Comments

  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,608
    edited April 2023
    Nom_Deplume said:

    The manual for our boiler (HTP Elite FT) suggests using a "lime scale remover" during fireside cleaning. I assume they mean something like CLR or Rydlyme.

    My question is, why? Combustion produces water, but it isn't hard water! It also produces stranger things, namely coffee grounds; but CLR/Rydlyme don't dissolve coffee grounds, they have to be vacuumed out. So what's the purpose of lime scale remover?

    Incidentally, the so-called "stainless" in our boiler has deep black stains that don't come off with scrubbing or CLR.

    On SS HX we have used products such as Super Citrus, CLR all the way up to a oven cleaner to clean a HX..
    Condensing boilers produce condensate at lower temperatures(>138F) which is similar to "Water" but very low in PH (Aggressive)
    Under perfect conditions this condensate will actually clean your HX from any deposits therfore keeping deposits at a minimum and give the boiler a better heatexchange.
    This is why we strive to operate our systems as long as possible in the Condensing/lower temperature range >138 F.
    Not only will your AFC be lower but your boiler will get a Daily Condensate"shower"

    Here is a German Company that makes Cleaners and Pressure washers for these situations.
    https://www.sotin.de/
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,946
    Aren't the fins in an HTP, at least in a UFT aluminum pressed in to the stainless tubes?
  • Nom_Deplume
    Nom_Deplume Member Posts: 94
    Derheatmeister said:



    On SS HX we have used products such as Super Citrus, CLR all the way up to a oven cleaner to clean a HX..

    My question was, why?

    Regarding the condensate being acidic, my understanding is that a properly tuned boiler does not produce much in the way of sulfuric and nitric acids, and so the water is acidic mainly because of the abundant CO2, which causes a pH of about 5. (Which is not that acidic.) But again, the question is, what does it matter whether the condensate is acidic? What is is helping to clean? There is no limescale on the fire side!
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,433
    edited April 2023
    I believe they tell you to use a "limescale remover" because that is what the product is typically called, and would be most commonly available to use. Products referred to as "limescale remover" are capable of cleaning off things other than just limescale, it just so happens that is the most common application for use of the product.

    So what is it helping to clean? You are correct in that you shouldn't really have "limescale" in your fireside, but there are sill the products of combustion that need to be cleaned periodically to restore the fire chamber to its proper condition and maintain good heat transfer
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,946
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1746716#Comment_1746716

    i'd imagine the amount of sulfuric acid has to do with the amount of sulfur in the gas.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,636

    Axiom has a combustion side cleaner

    I agree in not needing a delimer on the fire side

    IMG_9886.jpeg
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,946
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1847208#Comment_1847208

    Their one for aluminum is like 10% lye which seems like a bad idea.

    CLamb
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,636
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1847210#Comment_1847210

    I would assume these were developed specifically for the designated use?

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,946
    edited March 8

    i would think but lye turns aluminum in to a liquid

  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,524

    They also have a second part to neutralize the 1st part.

    Short term exposure is not a huge deal.

    It works well enough. I had an Aluminum block recently that had a real issue w/ hard scaling inside. It certainly helped to break it up.

  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 1,009

    Lye is "Kryptonite" to aluminum. I tried to store wood-ashes in an aluminum vat. They got wet—being outside, and uncovered—and the bottom 1/3 of the vat disappeared. An inadvertent experiment, but very instructive.

    delcrossvPC7060

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