What are the 4 wires that attach to an oil burner?
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What is each terminal called?
2 yellow? 2 red/black pairs?
Which pair did the tech jump to prime and bleed the fuel?
Comments
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That is an obsolete primary control. If it has a 45-second trial for ignition, which is likely, it no longer meets Code. Code now requires 15 seconds.
The yellow wires go to the CAD cell, which is the flame detector, and the others go to the thermostat.
I also saw in your other thread that the solenoid oil-delay valve on that burner has been bypassed. Whoever did that should not be in the business. That valve serves as a redundant oil cut-off, and cleans up the starts and stops which are the dirtiest parts of an oil burner's operation.
If you're not going to switch to gas, you need a real oil guy. Where are you located again?
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Thanks, let me try to understand your advice.
The primary control is the old Honeywell box with the 4 wires attached to it? Obsolete? Maybe an excuse to replace the entire burner with a newer one?
Where is the oil delay valve and how do you know it's been bypassed? Why would someone do this?
Not switching to gas. Seems nightmarish. It may cost $XXk to get a gas line from the street (dig up lawn, sidewalk, driveway, porch, foundation, etc), and another $XXk+ for a new boiler. I'm in NY. I had a guy from this forum look ay my boiler and he said it's unserviceable and said he would replace it
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The primary control you have was installed prior to the code revision that requires a 15 second trial for ignition. You can still use that control. If you ever need to replace that control you can use the identical control for the replacement, but I would not do that. I would use the newer code control because they are, for the most part, less expensive than a new replacement R8184G control like you have on your oil burner.
First you need to turn the thermostat above the room temperature to call for heat. next you need to get the tools to open the priming port on the oil burner pump. To prime the oil burner on that old control you need to have a alligator clip jumper wire. You connect the F F terminals (yellow wires) with the jumper. Then you turn on the power to the burner, then you need to remove the metal cover on your primary control because the reset button is missing from the cover. With the cover off you can see the clear plastic safety lockout switch with the reset button on it. Press the reset button and the burner will not start because you have the F F terminals jumped. as soon as you remove the jumper the burner motor will start. Immediately put the jumper wire back on the F terminal to give the control a false flame signal. The burner motor will not stop until the call for heat is over or the power switch is turned off.
Now you can prime the fuel pump because the motor will continue to operate until you stop it by turning off the power switch or the thermostat call for heat is terminated. Once you get the oil to flow from the bleeder port, close the bleeder valve and the oil will spray into the chamber and the ignitor will light the flame.
When you are finished priming the burner, remove the jumper and set your thermostat to the desired room temperature. make sure the priming port is tight and not leaking. clean up any oil that you may have spilled and spread oil dry on any oil stain the you left on the floor.
When you get your new boiler the new burner will have the new and improved primary control that has a set of instructions to put the control in pump prime mode.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I'm not planning to replace the boiler, just thinking about a new burner
Here are your steps
Steps to Prime the Oil Burner
- Call for Heat – Turn the thermostat above room temperature.
- Prepare Tools – Get the necessary tools to open the priming port on the oil burner pump.
- Set Up Jumper Wire – Use an alligator clip jumper wire to connect the F-F terminals (yellow wires).
- Turn on Power – Switch on the burner power.
- Access Reset Button – Remove the metal cover on the primary control to access the clear plastic safety lockout switch.
- Press Reset Button – Press the reset button; the burner won’t start due to the jumper.
- Start Burner Motor – Remove the jumper briefly; the burner motor will start.
- Maintain Motor Operation – Immediately reattach the jumper to the F terminal to simulate a false flame signal, keeping the motor running.
- Prime Fuel Pump – Open the bleeder port to allow oil to flow.
- Close Bleeder Valve – Once oil flows steadily, close the valve; fuel will spray into the chamber and ignite.
- Finish Up –
- Remove the jumper wire.
- Set the thermostat to the desired temperature.
- Ensure the priming port is sealed and not leaking.
- Clean up any spilled oil and use oil dry on stains.
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Replacing some steam boilers can be challenging. You need the knowhow first and foremost and there is no way to put price on that knowhow until you have someone put in a steam boiler the wrong way and need to pay to have it torn down and repiped properly. This forum is filled with such cases.
And you can look up priced for the appliance on line in many cases, but you also need to add all the parts that are not included in box the boiler was delivered in. Pipe and fittings are getting outrageously expensive. Then there are the air vents, main vents, flue connector pipe, and you may even need a chimney liner based on the pictures of your boiler from your other discussions. Do you want to have an automatic water feeder? will you need to have a drop header on the new boiler because of a low ceiling in your boiler room?
I remember a customer telling me that I overcharged him for a boiler install when i was finished, after he looked up the wholesale price of the boiler. Then I gave him a list of about 75 parts that I used to connect the low cost boiler to his home. I asked him to look up the prices of all those other parts. Then I asked him to find out how much a freight company might charge to deliver those parts to his home LTL. After he had that total I asked him how much markup would a retail hardware store might charge him for all those parts. He compared about 6 or 7 parts on my list with the local hardware store prices for those same parts. The markup on a 2" black iron nipple was about 3 times the wholesale cost. So I asked him if I marked up the parts including the boiler, and the fittings and all the other 75 parts on the lost by about 30% would that be fair?
Well we were no where near the contract price but we were a lot closer. Then I asked him what he makes an hour working for his boss. I didn't want to know. I just wanted him to calculate his wages for the work that he does. (he makes good money) Multiply that by 3 to account for 2 mechanics and 2 helpers at 1/2 price for the three days I was on that job. Now when your boss sends you out on a job, does he charge the customer exactly the wages he pays you or does he mark up your hours so he can make a profit? What does he charge an hour for you to work on customers jobs? Now we were getting closer.
Then i said that I have office staff that answers the phone and prints out the billing and purchase the materials and tools to do this work. I have to use use that labor and part markup to pay for those people.
How much is left I asked. The number was about $1500.00. So I asked him how much is should be entitled to after I pay for everything else I used to get this job done. I told him that I wanted more that 1500. Would he be able to pay more than the contract price?
I would usually not bother with this on a one and done customer, but I wanted to get more business from this guy. And I knew he would play with the numbers and get the wholesale prices from Grainger and other catalogue companies back then. He worked for a concrete delivery and masonry supply company, who also operated the ACE hardware in the neighborhood. By showing him that I didn't over charge him for his new boiler, I locked in seven other jobs in the following 3 years, and signed up about 20 properties for maintenance agreements from other employees and the two owners of the concrete company.
By the way… You should remove the price of $00.K from your post because we do not discuss prices on this forum. although the number is vague not knowing the entire scope of the job the contractor quoted.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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would the Resideo R7284 controller be helpful for this person since it does have the option of making the start time 15 seconds which is safer than what is there now? Maybe they don't even need to replace the burner just because "its old".
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That one, or these:
The point is, this is a safety control and needs to be brought up to current standard. We routinely replace those old R8184 controls, not just to get the 15-second trial for ignition, but also because they turn off the igniter after the flame is established ("interrupted ignition"). This not only saves some electricity but also extends the life of the igniter and electrodes.
@CoachBoilermaker , the oil delay valve is the cylindrical device at the left front of the burner. You can see the brass fittings where the pipes connect. One came from the fuel unit ("pump") and the other went to the nozzle line connection on the left side of the burner, now a single piece of pipe connects the two. We routinely add these to existing burners, since it makes them run cleaner. But I like this one better:
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting1 -
The Carlin CRD 100 is one of the better oil burners that you can select. No need to replace it. All the parts are still available if you need them. Th fact that there is a oil valve that is not being used may mean that the valve has failed. in any case connecting a working oil valve sn replacing the primary control with the Carlin 70200 pro with 5 year warranty is all that is needed to get the burner to operate as good as any new burner that you can purchase from a wholesale supply house or on eBay.
That is just my opinion. I grew up with Carlin CRD100 burners and I thought they were the Cadillac compared to the Beckett being the Chevy.
Just my opinion.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Thanks @Steamhead appreciate the additional info.
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the oil delay valve is the cylindrical device at the left front of the burner. You can see the brass fittings where the pipes connect. One came from the fuel unit ("pump") and the other went to the nozzle line connection on the left side of the burner, now a single piece of pipe connects the two
Trying to follow. There is a hose that emerges from the ground. It it the upper hose/pipe in the photo. It travels left clockwise, goes under the shadow, and then attaches at the kink on the right side. Upper hose is #1. Lower hose is #2 which goes from the kink leftward toward the faucet handle on the left side. The whole thing is a weird loop, now that you've mentioned it? Are you saying these were spliced together at the kink to bypass the valve?
Originally, are you saying #1 → Valve → #2 → Burner?
Right now it's #1 → #2 → Burner ?
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Nope.
The delay valve is mounted just to the left of the CARLIN logo. It does not have a handle.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Here is the solenoid people are talking about
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This is how they bypassed it
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I was referring to these 2 pipes.
Were you talking about these in the bold quoted text above?
Can someone draw in the correct routing or post an example photo with the valve correctly piped in?
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What pump pressure is the burner currently set to? You're changing the primary if you're connecting the delay valve.
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No, those pipes bring the oil from the tank to the burner. The correct answer is in @PeteA 's post:
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
The above illustration is for @CoachBoilermaker to see what we are talking about. The electric oil valve that has been bypassed is located on the right side of the burner. there are no high pressure nozzle lines connected to it. I have added the two high pressure lines that should be on the electric valve. One from the electric valve inlet to the fuel pump outlet (currently going to the nozzle). The second high pressure line should go from the electric valve outlet, to the nozzle. (light brown)
The other fuel line that is coming out of the concrete floor is from the fuel oil tank. This is not to tell you how to do it in the future. For that, look at this video from NORA
The buried oil line is not up to code by todays standards. When your fuel line was installed, that is the way it was done. Just bury the copper in the basement dirt and pour the concrete basement floor on top of the copper line. Today that buried line would need to be in a sealed conduit so if the fuel line ever leaks, the oil from the tank woud be visible at either end of the conduit.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
0
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