So as I continue to get deeper into the weeds on boilers I was curious where different brands fall on the scale of 1-10?
As a finsh carpenter/woodworker we always had so-so,good,better & best. I know that rating things can be a bit subjective but I will ask anyway!😀😀
Where does Weil-McClain, Rinnai and Navien land on my scale?
Thanks !
10/10 is any brand with local parts and installers.
7/10 is anything without local parts but it has a "real" heat exchanger.
5/10 and below is anything that is a tankless water heater masquerading as a boiler, points awarded up to this ranking are for each year that parts are covered under warranty.
unless you ask a service tech then they are all junk, and the worst one is the one getting worked on right now
I have zero expertise here, but I've gone deep into these same weeds — two brands you didn't mention that seem very well regarded are Viessmann (which seems to be considered the best but is uncommon in the US) and Lochinvar.
If I were to pick a boiler from my own research first and then find a local installer familiar with it later (rather than doing the sensible thing of consulting the experts first, as you are right now), I'd pick a Lochinvar Knight.
My picks from owning an HTP and reading the comments here would be Lochinvar, HTP, and Viessman. I think some of the HTP stuff gets rebranded under other names.
My personal opinion is that I like the Weil McLain the most out of those three. Anything is better than a Navien. The quality of the installation is really the most important thing. Focus on who is doing the job more than what brand they are installing
Those three all tie for last place in my opinion. Rinnai might have a very slight edge over the other two, but none are considered to be "good" by many.
One of my local HVAC suppliers carries NTI, what is the opinion on those? Generally not a fan of indirects but the price on their smaller indirects is actually pretty decent.
As for the OP. If I was shopping for an modcon, I would want.
-built in pump with speed control
-built in 3 way valve
-can be plumbed direct to load
This means the only thing you have to do outside is connect your rads and indirect. No manifolds, not extra pumps, no extra controls (except for some TRVs on rads). Save the cost and complexity of all those bits.
Why a 3 way valve? Shuttle between indirect and heat?
the more of it that is external the more of it that is an off the shelf part.
Off the shelf parts are definitely good but these things don't break all that often. If a local supplier carries the unit, any specialty parts are generally stocked, worst case next day.
It is adding all those bits and pieces is what complicates most hydronic builds.
@hot_rod Yes, 3 way for indirect. No need for external plumbing bits, just direct connection to the indirect.
The knight comes with a VS circ, and it can be direct piped with adequate floe. Mo 3 way
I just use a 3 way zone valve for the dhw transfer
I've installed mosty Rinnai, Viessman, Laars...all very well made. Plumbers tend to bash the brands their competitors install & vice versa. Most are made pretty well, and as the guys say, Installation is everything. Mad Dog
Same old story....Ford,Chevy,Toyota.…IMO a boiler is only as good as the install and its SUPPORT !
What good is "The Best" boiler if at -30F it has an issue and you reach out for Tech support only to wait in the queue for an hour or two...Finally someone that hates their job probably working from home answers and gives ill advise..
What good is "The best" boiler if at - 30F you determine that the fan is in need of replacement ,you cannot source it for 2 weeks and the counter guy blames the bean counter for not having it in stock.
We have found that in order for us to be able to support our customers in time in need we must stock most of the common parts such as Gasvalves,fans,Controls,Sensors for all the boilers that we installed.
We also recommend that annual inspection and Service be performed prior to the heating season in order to reduce nuisance service calls.
Having a Good relationship with the local rep also helps.
Proper sizing and piping design
Proper piping, including venting
Proper fill water
Proper start up
Proper documentation
There have been, and seem to still be some brands and models that have flaws, design errors, history of inadequate support. Those names pop up here from time to time and at other sites
The best tech in the world doesn’t matter if the product is flawed.
This is the main issue with anything hydronic. That 3 way valve costs about 10% of a modcon cost. It is very easy to add a couple more items like that and really blow the budget. Unfortunately any hydronic bits in north America are priced silly so you have to really watch how you are plumbing things up.
Then there is the fire tube vs water tube debate.
it’s just like high school, Ford versus Chevy
When i was starting my training, some one asked the instructor what the best furnace was to install. His response i still use to this day. They are all crap, some crap is a little better than others but still crap that breaks. After 15years in the trade, parts availability is key, they all break. Also watch for established companies (looking at you lennox) that "obsolete" parts after so many years. Also, consider external controls better than all in one. Easy to source and change a pump or valve when its not part of the unit. Not so much when "we dont make that part or unit any more". Just my thoughts on 15years of hvacr.
