Heating house with floor, total area 170mp

nicholas_rom · January 11

Two years ago, a forced draft Arca Ecofat 32 FR boiler was installed (heating only), with a 3-way servo-motorized valve and a 150l external Vaillant boiler. Central heating circuit settings: 56 degrees and 1.3 bars. There are also 2 radiator distributors from Jurgen Schlosser Armaturen installed, 1 with 2 ways (ground floor) and another with 5 (first floor); on the flow there are flow meters now all set to 1 l/min, and on the return there are valves with actuators (the actuators have not been installed yet). Heating was wanted in zones/rooms - the radiators in the upstairs bathroom and the upstairs hallway will be permanently open, plus 2 radiators on the ground floor (kitchen and hallway) - so a bypass for the distributors was not installed. The pump in the boiler is a classic one (CIRCOLATORE 6M ATTACCO 1" MONO) and it has been running for 2 years on the whole system. I don't know what problems there will be when I install the actuators, the room thermostats and the control unit, all Jurgen Schlosser Armaturen Blue Line.

On the ground floor there is a circuit with 5 radiators "in series" (living room) - the first of them, the one next to the technical room, has now started to make a regular rattling noise, after the boiler is switched on to heating, which lasts about 2 minutes. At the same time, when switching to heating, the 3-way valve seems to sometimes make a louder or less loud "clacking" type noise ( https://www.youtube.com/shorts/neBa0wfVzVU ), with vibration in the flow pipe that goes from the boiler to the radiator distributors. The (external) 3-way valve probably needs to be changed immediately. I have bled all the radiators - many "beads" (like in a water pipe :)) in the container where I took a little water from the air vent. I should mention that the distributors do not automatic air vents were installed, but classic ones, like on radiators.

I am attaching some pictures. Any suggestions for improving the heating "system" are very welcome. THANK YOU!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/neBa0wfVzVU

Jamie Hall · January 11

You may run into some slightly odd things when you start using the actuators — hard to say.

But on the specific item at the moment, the clank and crackling noise you hear — before you decide to change hardware may I suggest that what it may be is excessive air in the system? Bleeding radiation may get some air out, but you mention that you do not have an automatic air removal device, and it is almost inevitable that some air will get into a system.

Therefore — figure out a way to power purge each loop of piping individually. This may take some ingenuity, but between the flow control valves and the individual manifold valves it should be possible, assuming that somewhere in the piping there is a way to connect domestic water pressure to the system — and a place for it to drain.

nicholas_rom · January 11

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1833852#Comment_1833852

I have already ordered a new 3-way valve because I noticed that the flap gets stuck in the middle of the slide from the boiler position to the radiator heating position. Another suspicion would be that I played with the closing of 2 taps from 2 bedrooms upstairs and it could just be a coincidence. If I listen carefully with my ear close to a distributor I can hear something like a little air in it - if I put an automatic air vent maybe that will solve the problem?

hot_rod · January 11

A loose, or broken paddle in one of the 3 way valves. Or something stuck in the circulator pump impeller?

nicholas_rom · January 12

I've removed the upper part of the valve, the one with the actuator. I sprayed it with oil for fine mechanisms - it was a little sticky and a rust stain also leaked out. Now the valve works somehow OK. The problem is that this type of valve has a rubber ball in the brass body - so I don't know how reliable it is over time. I heard that there are other types of 3-way valves but with a flap that would be more reliable. Any suggestions on this?

nicholas_rom · January 12

Another problem would be the 5-way distributor that serves each room on the first floor. Should the classic air vents in them be replaced with automatic air vents? Should the vertical copper pipes of the 5 circuits, which go upstairs from the technical room on the ground floor, each have an air vent because over time oxygen appears in the installation?

nicholas_rom · January 12

I recorded with my mobile phone the sound of water through the of the circuits going to the radiators upstairs.
The recording is with amplification of the sound inside the manifold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hikfQ2iZBow

hot_rod · January 12

I don't see a central air purger on the system. That is typically right at the boiler.

So you will depend on the air vents on the manifolds and any bleeders at the radiators.

If you have debris in the system, I would add a hydronic cleaner, run it for a day, flush and refill.

Take a sample of what flushes out.

I have seen those rubber ball type valves deteriorate over time. Aggressive water can cause that. Rubber particles will be in the water you flush out.

There are probably rebuild kits available for the 3 way valves.

HW zone valve ball deteroiation.png

nicholas_rom · January 16

Many Thanks Bob :)

The new one arrived :)

Heating house with floor, total area 170mp

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