Steam system questions

geemalar · January 9

First post here…….finding this site has offered some really interesting reading material and insight into my steam heating system. It’s also had me question the operation of my home system. The more I read, the more questions….

So, I have a single pipe steam system that originally ran off an oil fired boiler. After getting tired of the cost of oil, the noise and smell of the boiler, I upgraded to a gas fired Peerless boiler. So to start off the good news is the system seems to work really well. Absolutely silent operation, heats great, kind of couldn’t ask for much more.

One of my concerns is water use. Two story 2100 sf home built in 1940. On my second floor I have 4 mid size radiators along with a small slant fin in my bathroom. On the first floor I have 7 mid size radiators. Let’s say over the past week, it’s been a little colder than past weeks……I’m probably adding a half quart of water to the system over the course of the week. Doesn’t seem like much, but from what I’ve read here it sounds as if it may be excessive.

I’m not finding any leaks anywhere, but I do notice that some of my vents seem to take a while before they close. They are all Varivalves, which from reading here don’t have the best reputation. I actually went to my local hardware store today (for another home project) and saw that they sold both Maid o Mist and Gortons in various sizes. Just curious if that might be a starting point, as I dont see any leaks anywhere.

Another question…..I notice that in my sight glass water level………the lower part where the water is….the water is relatively clear. Above the water line…….there is brown residue. A few weeks back it was warm enough that I shut off the heat, removed the sight glass and cleaned it. Not a week went by and the top had the residue again.

I run the lower sediment valve about once a month, I take out about a quart of residue until the water runs clear. Just wondering why the top of the sight glass gets dirty while the lower part stays clean. When the boiler is operating, I see absolutely no movement of the water in the sight glass.

Just looking for some pointers in making my system as best as possible, since I plan to stay in this house for a number of years. I would even consider having a steam system expert in northern NJ do an assessment of the system, if anyone can make a recommendation that would be appreciated.

Thanks again……

delcrossv · January 9

Pictures would be great!

The top residue is probably oil. To remove that you'd have to skim the boiler.

You do NOT have to drain the boiler every month. By draining and adding water, you're introducing dissolved oxygen which causes additional corrosion. Drain the sludge annually when prepping for the next heating season.

You can reduce corrosion by adding a little water treatment like 8way. Use way less than the directions on the bottle.

Paging @ethicalpaul

I've had consistently bad luck with Gorton vents. Maid-o-mist for the win. If your vents are closing on steam, they're still good.

geemalar · January 9

Just to be clear, I’m not draining the entire boiler……..just a quart or so until the water runs clear out the drain valve. Are you recommending that I only do that once a year?

geemalar · January 9

Here’s some pictures, lmk what others would be beneficial……

delcrossv · January 9

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1833071#Comment_1833071

No, I got you. And yes, you do not want to drain sludge monthly.

Unless you have a float type LWCO. Those do get flushed.

Can you post a picture of the controls side?

Long Beach Ed · January 9

I believe your water usage is within the normal range. I found Vari-Vents are a little slow to close, but if they are giving you good service, there's no need to change them.

geemalar · January 9

I’ll get a picture of the control side tomorrow, thanks again…….

mattmia2 · January 9

Looks like a probe lwco, probably the cyclegard that comes with it but could be a safgard. you could have steam leaks at valve packings or other places. a cold mirror held near possible leaks could possibly show steam leaks.

the boiler and returns should get flushed once a year or so to flush the sludge out of the system.

EBEBRATT-Ed · January 9

I wouldn't worry about the brown residue. Just clean the glass once a year or so. If the water level doesn't move when the boiler is steaming that is good news….no need for draining or skimming. You might want to try a small amount of water treatment. I will let @ethicalpaul comment on that. Also, It is good that the system heats well and is quiet.

If you need a steam expert PM @clammy or @Ezzy

geemalar · January 9

Here’s a picture of the control side…….taken this morning as it was running full steam ahead (pun intended). I typically turn the thermostat down 3-5 degrees when we go to bed, turn it back up in the morning. Gauge reading was after the system was running about 5 minutes or so.

geemalar · January 9

I’m definitely ahead of the game in the sense that the system is working well, I just want to make sure I’m not missing anything that could make it work better. Probably my biggest concern is water level drop, especially on these colder days. It’s not so much of an issue of adding the water, it’s the long term effects on the system.

Also, the capped port behind the sight glass upper shut off valve…….would that be the port used to skim the system?

ethicalpaul · January 9

I don’t like oil appearing in the gauge glass.

Did you see the installer skim your boiler? Maybe hopefully a couple times?

You did report the water level is steady so you may be good there.

Congrats on upgrading to gas, and Peerless is a nice boiler. I’m in North Jersey, see the link below if you’d like free on-site or phone advice.

After you’re sure the oils are removed, you can look at water treatment. There’s no need for mud in your boiler. Stop draining.

geemalar · January 9

I know he skimmed it, as to how many times I’m not sure. I remember him telling me that the skimming was really important and that he would come back after a week to do it again (which he did as part of the installation).

Am I ok to wait for skimming after the winter season it or should that be done soon…….

AdmiralYoda · January 9

Not that we trust those 0-30psi gauges too much, but yours is showing 9psi! Your pressuretrol looks to be set correctly at about as low as it will go.

It might be a good idea to do a couple things.

Blow through the pigtail for your pressuretrol and make sure it is clear
Consider replacing that 0-30psi gauge
Even better, install a Tee and put a low pressure gauge (0-3psi) and the 0-30psi gauge on it.

Skimming is easy and is something you can do on your own. Might be a good idea.

delcrossv · January 9

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1833144#Comment_1833144

Agreed. How old is the boiler?

Are the vents really hissing loudly?

geemalar · January 9

Boiler is about 8 years old. I can hear all of the radiator vents as they are being fed steam (depending on what room I am in), but they are definitely not loud at all. Just a faint hissing noise until they close.

I was wondering (after I took the picture yesterday) about the pressure reading myself, knowing that these systems run a really low pressure. I never really looked at it before as I never heard or had any issue with the systems operation. I take it the pressure should drop a bit once the boiler shuts down a cycle. Is that correct? I will keep an eye to see if the pressure fluctuates at all. It's possible it's stuck in that position.

Like I said earlier, the system seems to be working properly, but I just want to make sure nothing is missed in keeping the system maintained.

ethicalpaul · January 9

my opinion is that as long as your water level is staying pretty constant during steaming you don’t need to skim (but I probably would to reduce the floating oil, but I’m a fanatic)

This is what @EBEBRATT-Ed advised and I have no argument with that

geemalar · January 9

Yes the water level does not pulse/jump as the boiler is running……..just stays steady at all times. Knowing that a skimming would be beneficial, I'm probably going to do it once we get a slightly warmer day here. I looked online and it seems pretty straightforward. Understand that once you get the water to start draining out the skim port to keep it at a really slow pace to get any contaminants off the top level.

I'll keep an eye on the pressure gauge to see if that number moves……..if it doesn't move at all I'll look into replacing it.

ethicalpaul · January 9

Don't bother replacing that gauge. If you want an accurate way to read your pressure, consider buying a 1-3psi gauge and add it to the 1/4" brass fittings that are supplying your pressuretrol.

The skimming isn't really beneficial unless your boiler is surging which would be evidenced by a dramatic drop in water level during steam production, so you can hold off on that for as long as you like. One good time to do it is at the absolute end of the heating season because then you can leave the extra water in the boiler over the summer (some people think that is smart to not have the same waterline all year around so corrosion is spread around — corrosion typically is heavy where water, iron, and air meet).

Here is a gauge that I like:

https://www.amazon.com/SENCTRL-Pressure-Gauge-Capsule-Adjustment/dp/B0C624GLKD

You can get the 1/4" brass fittings from supplyhouse who is an advertiser on this site

PS: OK the boiler is 8 years old. I was under the mistaken impression that it was newly installed. You should have it checked by a competent steam contractor to include cleaning the pigtail, checking and cleaning the LWCO and at least looking at the burners to make sure they look OK. Or you can learn to do those things yourself if you have the desire.

geemalar · January 9

Thanks again……….I definitely have the desire and technical competence, but I may just get a competent local steam contractor to take a look at it overall and perform the necessities. I'll ask the questions during that time to differentiate between what I can do in the future and what the expert should take care of.

TKPK · January 9

if the pressure gauge is plugged and not operating the same could be true with the pigtail and the sight glass lower port. Actual pressure and surging condition are unknown. Sounds like it hasn’t been seen by a pro in 8 years since it was installed?

Until those three are confirmed clear and the LWCO cleaned he is just guessing?

Those are all easy to do yourself and tons of good videos out there and you also have a large number of experts in your area.

If I were you I would call in a pro and have him walk you through the annual maintenance and what you should be looking for if you are inclined to do it yourself.

geemalar · January 9

Sight glass lower port was checked when I cleaned the sight glass assembly about 3 weeks ago…….when I removed the sight glass, I put a pail underneath the lower port and opened it up via the circular knob. I let the water flow until it came out clean. After reassembly I opened up the bottom nut to make sure that was also clear (at the bottom of the sight glass assembly). I also cleaned out the upper sight glass port as best as possible when the glass was removed.

I'll check the pressuretrol pigtail once we get a semi decent day of weather.

TKPK · January 9

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1833279#Comment_1833279

that is good news and would indicate the lack of surging if water level doesn’t act radically during burn.

Does your pressure gauge ever go to zero?

On my boiler the 0-30 psi gauge never comes off of zero so I put in a 0-5” of water gauge and now I can see what is happening.

geemalar · 1:34AM

The pressure gauge never moves……..I even shut the heat off for about 20 minutes to see if anything would happen and it did not budge. I have a feeling it’s stuck in its current position.

I’m a bit reluctant to start tearing things apart right now, as the entire system is providing quiet comfortable heat throughout the entire house.

Steam system questions

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